Chat log for July 26, 2004

System: davek joined us. Cheers!
anneliese: Hi Dave!
davek: Hi Anneliese.
anneliese: Is Chris going to make it tonight?
davek: I don't know. He left a message on the forum that said he was having trouble contacting me email. If he was going to be here I would have expected him to wait.
anneliese: I couldn't figure out the appeared for me around an hour ago, but the time stamp said 10am.
davek: I saw it about 4 PM mountain taime.
anneliese: I was going to respond that tonight's chat can be another GenE, because I doubt that we'll see herbie.
davek: Is he in Europe?
anneliese: Hi might be. I don't remember.
davek: I was looking at your personal GenE page. I've got mixed feelings about it.
anneliese: It's not meant to be taken too seriously.
davek: On one hand it is a contribution but on the other it is very un-wiki like.
anneliese: I don't see it as un-wiki...the point of a wiki is that everyone can create pages...and cross link them.
davek: I think the idea of the wiki is to have everyone wite in the same pages.
anneliese: Certainly, you are welcome to add stuff to my pages...if not, I'd write-protect them.
anneliese: Personally, I don't like to see ultra-long pages...I like structure and relatively short pages.
anneliese: When the page gets too long, it gets very hard for me to follow.
anneliese: I also was struggling with the fact that I thought folks ought to be contributing more of their own thoughts and impression, in their own way...
davek: I agree. This would be a lot easier if we had more participation. I feel like I'm talking mostly to myself.
anneliese: ...not necessarily the way we structure the overall pages.
anneliese: Me too. If not for your entries, I'd feel like the whole project was for my gratification alone <g>
davek: ANd I feel that I almost forced you to install a wiki.
anneliese: Of course, the fact that I have no life might have something to do with that.
davek: LOL I feel the same way sometimes.
anneliese: Nope, you didn't force me to do anything. In fact, I have another wiki in process...I'm trying to build up my web skills.
anneliese: I'm having way too much fun playing with all of this.
davek: Good. DId you first here about wikis from me or had you known about them.
anneliese: A couple of years ago I did check out a wiki site...but I couldn't see what it was about...kind of how I feel about blogging now :beard:
anneliese: Even though I'm doing a lot of tinkering, it's also helping me work out story details that have had me stumped for a long time.
davek: Have you heard from the prospective new members?
anneliese: Nope, and that is kind of disappointing.
anneliese: So I'm trying to spread the word any way I can, adding links, posting on message boards, etc.
davek: Here is a site about a paying collaborative work.
davek: I did see where one site from my list had changed to the new web address.
anneliese: Yep, I did get the first one on the list, but the rest have basically ignored my requests so far.
anneliese: We'll get there, though. It will probably take a couple more months for the search engines to catch up.
davek: You do seem to have a few stories to send out. I'm finally getting out of my doldrums and writing again.
anneliese: Yes, I had hoped that I'd get off my butt and finish my story, but it isn't happening just yet.
davek: One of the ways to get to write is called BIC - butt in chair. So you're half way theer.
anneliese: Yes, but with high speed wireless access, it's easy to be distracted.
davek: That's the truth.
davek: I'm trying to force myself to write for at least one hour per day. SInce I just started it I'm batting 1000. One day down.
anneliese: Also, hubby has been having problems with his eyes for the past few months...that is very distracting.
anneliese: That's fantastic...I gotta do that.
davek: I had a deteched retina a while back.
anneliese: His is more serious...inflamed optic nerves due to elevated cerebro-spinal fluid, and he seems to have allergies to most of the meds.
anneliese: Although a detatched retina is no fun either.
davek: Yuck.
anneliese: Well, in more ways than one, it has been an interesting year.
davek: I hope it turns out OK. My year has thankfully been boring.
anneliese: After this one, a boring year would be most welcome.
anneliese: We're already willing to just jump to 2005.
anneliese: Skip the rest of this year.
davek: Not to mention the elections.
anneliese: Definately would love to skip all of that.
davek: Are you near Boston?
anneliese: Near enough...less than 2 hours by car.
davek: Too close. But it should be an inspiration for some stories.
anneliese: Lots of story inspiration for sure.
davek: I want to start a story - One side says the other side sucks. No details.
anneliese: I'm not sure I understand.
davek: I was thinking that "The Other Side Sucks" would make a good comic strip title.
anneliese: True.
anneliese: Could be fun.
davek: MOst of the news is ons side saying bad things about the other. It's not news.
anneliese: Of course I love all things absurd.
anneliese: I confess that I've been ignoring as much of the news as possible these days.
anneliese: I'm in such a funk already that I don't need any more negative inspiration.
davek: When I was in college my frieds and I went to the Grnd Prix races in Watkins Glen NY. THere was a swampy area called the bog. We would drink and chant "the other side sucks"
anneliese: LOL
davek: We would ring this bog chanting until someone got drunk enough to try to drive their car through.
anneliese: I'm sorry I missed that. (well, maybe not)
davek: Fun when you're young and don't have a car.
davek: WHere have Empty and Eddy been?
anneliese: Not sure. Eddy was on the message board this afternoon.
anneliese: I suspect that life has gotten in the way for Empty.
davek: MAybe we should spend some time brainstorming how to get new members. BUt I admit I don't have any ideas.
anneliese: I think we have the pieces in place, we just have to let time do its thing for a while.
anneliese: I was wondering if you wanted to spend any time brainstorming GenE.
anneliese: Or other projects.
davek: Sure, BTW you should update your journal page. It starts with the June 14 th chat.
anneliese: Yep. You're right. I haven't even thought about that in a long while.
anneliese: I should add more content to it.
davek: My big question on GenE is why would anyone sighup for a 100,000 year mission.
anneliese: Lots of reasons. The main one being a better life for ones descendants.
anneliese: Also, adventure for the sake of adventure.
anneliese: And accident can be a factor as well.
davek: So life on earth is a problem. I could buy that. Is it a natural disaster any if we can reach the stars why can't we fix that.
davek: That would be too much like ANderson's Tau Zero book.
anneliese: Well, I have a mythos...
anneliese: If I go back to my Mother Earth stories,
davek: I won;t hold a speech problem against you Eye-wink
anneliese: Gaia decides to limit human population on earth.
anneliese: So, the only way to get around that restriction is to leave.
anneliese: Personally, I think it's in our nature to want to spread to fill any vacuum.
davek: Good, There was a story where there was a limited number of souls. As the human population increased the old people started dying. This was years back, and China was an enemy. China started breeding and the solution was tonuke them.
davek: I think explorers would go into the unknown but they leave their families behind.
anneliese: I've heard that concept, but not that particular story.
davek: I can't think of the title or author, sorry.
anneliese: I don't think explorers would leave their families behind if they could bring them along.
davek: It depends on the danger.
davek: Maybe if there is a way to clone yourself.
anneliese: With the times and distances we are talking about, there would not necessarily be time or a family to return to.
anneliese: I have mixed feeling about clones...I believe that some folks will, but I'm not sure why (other than ego).
anneliese: And, I'm not sure clones will turn out to be what people think they will be.
davek: They should be almost identical twins.
davek: Unless we figure out some way to upload and download memories and thoughts.
anneliese: I believe in a 'body, mind, spirit' model, where 'body' is the only entity physically in this realm...cloning only duplicates the 'body', so 2/3s of the twins are not identical.
davek: Does a new mind and soul develop with the new body? If so then it is like a twin.
anneliese: Well, that would be the interesting part: body + mind + spirit = life...
anneliese: ...of course, I'm not really sure where the mind and spirit come from.
davek: What about animals?
anneliese: So, yes, the clone is like a natural twin...if it can be created and survive as a living being.
davek: I'm very much, what you see is what you get.
anneliese: Animals are no different, imho.
davek: They hae a soul?
anneliese: I don't think cloning is yet far enough along to really know what is going on.
davek: IS it a reincarnation thing?
anneliese: Yes, animals definately have a soul.
davek: OK, how about a mind?
davek: Define it first.
anneliese: Soul might be a reincarnation thing, or it may not. There are differing opinions.
anneliese: Animals definately have a mind...they think, reason and remember.
davek: Just a little devil's advocate. How it doesn't offen you.
anneliese: Not necessarily as humans do those things, but in a similar way.
anneliese: Naw. No offense, it's fun.
davek: I thought I knew you well enough to get away withit.
anneliese: I guess you do
davek: Well, we didn't get much done on GenE.
anneliese: No, we're being chickens...worrying about doing it all and not getting everyone's opinion.
davek: Part of the problem with collaborative world building is you need to specify so much up front. In your own stories you can just have a vague feeling about many aspects.
anneliese: Maybe we should just start another project to play with while waiting for that one to develop.
anneliese: And maybe we're trying to specify more than is really necessary...hard to tell.
davek: No, I think it would go the same way. Unless, it is pretty fleshedout and only a few point need to be figured out.
davek: Frm what I've read the back story is bigger than the final novel. So I don't think so.
anneliese: Well, you have my permission to shoot me an gloating email for every hour that you write.
davek: This is the problem with most collaboration projects. We need a strong leader or we defer to everyone else and nothing gets decided.
davek: I will not have to worry about AOL turning me off for spamming.
anneliese: Very true. Every project needs a leader that is an evil taskmaster.
anneliese: LOL
davek: My friend is trying to start a business. He is a techie and is not a driver so all we do is have meetings.
anneliese: Are you part of the startup?
davek: I tell him there are two things you need at every meeting 1- the time for the next meeting and 2- the task that are to be done by the next meeting.
anneliese: Good advice.
davek: I attend the meeting. I'm sure how much a part if it I am. If it takes off then my writing time will suffer a lot.
anneliese: Can be fun, but it is a lot of work. I wish you all luck.
davek: Thanks. I'm not sure exactly what I want to happen.
anneliese: Small business have lots of good things...and lots of not so good.
davek: Probably time to sign off.
davek: It has been fun. When are you sending an e-mail about the decision area in the wiki?
anneliese: Yep, probably. AM comes around too early. And I was dopy all day.
anneliese: Whenever you want...I thought you were doing that, told you my brain was mush!
anneliese: Tomorrow?
davek: And I thought you signed up for that.
anneliese: I most likely did.
davek: You or me?
anneliese: And I have no problem doing it.
anneliese: If you're set with the decision page, I'll announce it.
davek: We were going to decide when to have another special chat.
davek: Page is OK.
davek: We can not set a specific date yet. We wanted a week or two to discuss it on the wiki
anneliese: Yep, but you'll have to take the 'This is in development...' message out.
davek: CHris was going to contact Mike but I think he was npt able.
davek: It will be gone tonight. The form seems good.
anneliese: How about I also ask people's feelings about special chats on Wednesdays or some other time.
anneliese: I think the form is fantastic.
davek: Sounds good. Wait until late tomorrow. I'll e-mail CHris and see if he has any input.
anneliese: Possibly add some text anchors and/or set some heading levels so that it will auto generate a TOC at the beginning.
anneliese: I'll wait until Wednesday then. I don't do any SFWW emails from home.
davek: OK. I'll have to RTFM to see about TOC's
anneliese: Good thought putting the comment block on the GenE main page also.
anneliese: I can do it, if you don't want to RTFM.
davek: It took a bit of work to get it to let me show [[ without making it a link.
davek: I'll do it tomorrow. I don't mind learning how.
anneliese: There is more than a trivial amount to learn with regards to text formatting.
davek: Sometimes when I post using a comment box it lists me as guest
anneliese: OK, then, I'll just have to find some more plug-ins to install...for you to learn.
davek: If they are useful, no problem.
anneliese: That's wierd. The sessions plug-in was supposed to fix that.
anneliese: There is another that I'm considering that allows some drawing tools.
davek: It seems to depend on the path I take to the page.
anneliese: I thought that might be useful for charts and the like.
anneliese: I suppose that if you went directly to an edit page, rather than view first, you could bypass the login.
davek: I always get a login dialog. I'll watch it carefully and tell you what causes it or fixes it.
davek: Time to go. I'll email you tomorrow.
anneliese: I'd appreciate that. I've never seen a comment post except with a valid user id.
anneliese: Sounds good. Have a good night.
davek: Bye.

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EmptyKube's picture

Re:Chat log for July 26, 2004

hmmm..sorry i missed the chat. looks interesting. couple of quick thoughts. 1) why do people sign up for thousands of years? Well, to the average person, anything beyond the here now is unimportant. What do they care about a million years in the future? What will the trip me for me and my children and grandchildren? Will it mean better lodging, better food? Better health care? Et...does signing up mean being able to provide a better immediate lifestyle? These are decisions people make everyday regarding accepting new jobs, new places to live and so forth.
2) regarding clones. given that the current science shows that something is missing in our understanding of cloning, and that all of the clones so far made seem to suffer from illness and short lives (read somewhere that Dolly the sheep got cancer) I think cloning will turn out to be not what we think. Also, as a father of four, each with his/her own personality, I can't see cloning a person as cloning the individual. Maybe it will look like the original, but every personality is the accumulation of events effecting development. I can't see personalities cloning biologically. Maybe once we are able to scan a mind into a computer and duplicate it that second copy could be encoded into a cloned body, but at what cost to the developing mind inside the clone?
I will try to make the chat that CM wants to hold the second week of August.