Chat log for May 3, 2004

camidon: Dave, (if you're not distracted at the moment) have you done anymore research into old SFWW links?
anneliese: third try's a charm.
Elizabeth: Hello, everybody!
anneliese: Hi Elizabeth!
camidon: Hi Elizabeth
anneliese: I didn't get a system message.
davek: Whoa, Elizabeth's entry reset me. Hi. Elizabeth.
anneliese: New version again?
Elizabeth: How are you doing?
Elizabeth: I didn't mean to bump you, David.
anneliese: Just arriving myself
davek: To answer Chris, I did a Google search on SFWW and got about 17 links.
camidon: Dave gets bump, I get frozen, scolling doesn't: there still are a few bugs in this chat software
davek: But the price is right.
Elizabeth: It's not quite as bad as the Writers Club applet that iUniverse used to have, though.
anneliese: Great, Dave. I think it is time to begin updating links to the new site.
Elizabeth: That seemed to bump people every few minutes.
camidon: I'm just happy we have a definite, communal gathering place, hopefully in time, the bugs will get better
System: Elizabeth left us (snif).
anneliese: Chat software keeps getting better, but I wonder if irc would be better.
davek: I was wondering what to say to the webmasters. Why is our old link gone?
anneliese: What do you mean?
camidon: What do you mean, Why is our old link gone?
davek: Well, I have to write an email saying that our old site is defunct. Why don't we put a link there or do a automatic switch?
System: Elizabeth joined us. Cheers!
anneliese: WB, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth: Grrrrrr.
camidon: ah, I see
anneliese: Dave, I think that we decided that the email would come from Elizabeth and me.
anneliese: The gist will be to say that the SFFW site has moved to a new host...here is the new address.
davek: OK. I'll get a list of e-mail addresses to you ASAP. Probably a few days.
camidon: Anneliese, nothing at all from Mark (SFWWmoder?)
anneliese: That would be fantastic.
Elizabeth: I'd heard that Mark is now working as a WH liaison. Very very busy.
anneliese: Nothing from Mark. Amy hasn't heard from him either.
Elizabeth: WH: White House.
camidon: didn't think so
anneliese: I should get some more updates to the website this week.
camidon: well ain't that a strange bit of gossip if it's true. Wouldn't have guessed that.
anneliese: Anyone besides CM want to send me their 2 cents, I'll take it.
camidon: I sent you about 5 bucks worth! and that probably $4.95 more than you have time for!
anneliese: At least that amount. And worth every penny!
Elizabeth: lol!
camidon: well, that's at least good.
anneliese: I was looking over the links posted on the message board today.
anneliese: I'd like to incorporate some of that on the site.
Elizabeth: I think that would be a good idea.
anneliese: Folks have been posting a lot of good references.
anneliese: Well, do we continue to talk about SFWW business, or go on to CM's story?
Elizabeth: It sounds like we've got a pretty good handle on business...CM, is it critique time?
camidon: sounds fine with me
anneliese: Esteemed host, would you like to begin?
Elizabeth: Sorry about the delay. Puppy wants to play.
Elizabeth: I enjoyed this story. Some excellent details about the fairy world (I especially liked the teacher using clouds as chalk).
Elizabeth: I thought the Festival of Wings was a neat idea, and there was enough "edge"--Candiello having to sever her grandfather's wings, the idea of facing death and turning it into a thing of beauty--
davek: I thought it would sell well in a pre-teen girl market except for the enthusium for the grandparents dieing.
Elizabeth: to keep the story from being "precious", which is sometimes a hazard of fairy stories.
camidon: I'll take that as a compliment, Dave
Elizabeth: The one thing that kind of threw me off was that Candiello didn't seem to be upset about her grandfather dying.
anneliese: CM, was there anything that you wanted us to focus on about the story?
Elizabeth: I know she's excited that she finally gets to participate in the Festival of Wings, but I'd expect her to feel at least a little sad, or perhaps guilty that her grandfather doesn't get to enjoy this any more.
Elizabeth: And I expected her to have a much harder time--to be freaked out, really--at the prospect of cutting off Grandpa's wings. That's pretty intense.
davek: Maybe if the grandparents had beed dead for a while so the period of grief has passed.
camidon: I can see that, about us wanter her to feel sad, but what if this is not a moment of sadness for their society (just plaining devil's advocate)
Elizabeth: It also didn't seem quite right that the grandparents' deaths were announced over the loudspeaker. Maybe fairy sensibilities are different...
anneliese: If faries have a different philosophy re: death, then grief need not be an issue.
Elizabeth: true, Anneliese...
camidon: The wing cutting see is intense, and so I can see making her more "freaked out"
Elizabeth: You write in that scene that wings are really, really important to a fairy...I can see Candiello having a really hard time going through with the cutting.
davek: I keep thinking of a young adult audience. If it is an adult audience than that changes my suggestions.
Elizabeth: I liked the sympathy her parents show, and they clearly expect it to be hard.
davek: Maybe two versions, a young and an old. Double your chances for a sale.
camidon: I agree, Elizabeth. It should be hard. Perhaps I should draw out the scene a little more
camidon: Wings are the central element to the society
Elizabeth: good idea, Dave. Can't hurt.
anneliese: I wouldn't draw it out too much, though, or it may feel like beating a dead horse.
camidon: Dave, I think when I wrote this, I specifically wanted it on the boundary, but you might be right, may be I should try a draft in both formats
camidon: About lengthening: I was trying to keep this relatively short, under 2000, but I failed at 2,500.
davek: I didn't have any problems with the length.
Elizabeth: That's still a workable length for YA magazines, though. And some of them have good pay rates.
anneliese: I thought it could be a bit longer, maybe 3,000.
Elizabeth: <===agrees w/Dave and Anneliese. If you cut much of this story, I think it might be confusing.
camidon: So I remember specifically cutting certain things.
davek: What is a good "short" story length? I see a lot of market info that says that the market is saturated with longer stories.
camidon: That's good to know, that it could be longer and keep people';s interest
camidon: X<7,500 words, though some markets its <5,000
davek: I'm trying to edit Contact 1.0. I'm torn between removing all the story about Joan's beauty and modeling career or leaving it in and having the story over 5000 words.
camidon: I'd say if you're seriously thinking about cutting it out, then do it.
Elizabeth: Yeah, the markets that I see requesting "shorter" fiction have a 5-7.5K word limit.
Elizabeth: Of the markets that take different-length stories, that is.
Elizabeth: A lot of the short story markets set the bound at 4-5K.
camidon: What about the name Candello, Can for short? I nearly changed it before I sent this out. From the crits received so far, they thought it should be changed.
Elizabeth: I liked the name Candiello, but the nickname could be trouble.
anneliese: I would have liked something like 'Cande' for Candie rather than 'Can'
Elizabeth: Candi might work better.
anneliese: I bumped the first time I saw 'Can'.
davek: Me too.
camidon: That was my problem. I fell in love with Candello, and to a certain extent with Can, but there's just too many problems with "can"
anneliese: I like Candello.
camidon: I don't like Candi, though, as it sounds like a cheerleader or something too sweet
anneliese: But she is sweet.
Elizabeth: True...maybe Dello?
camidon: Dello's a possibility, Cande, too. I've also tossed around Zandello and Zan
camidon: Any votes?
Elizabeth: I like Candello better than Zandello...
anneliese: Both work for me.
Elizabeth: but Zan does work better as a nickname.
camidon: The only other thing I have a question about is the ending. 1) Did the rainbow motif make sense, and 2) did it wrap up the story well enough. Bruce wanted something more spectacular?
anneliese: It was a predictable thing, but I thought it was entirely appropriate.
anneliese: Made for a great rainbow myth.
Elizabeth: I liked it, even if I saw it coming. Seemed very appropriate.
camidon: That's kind of what I was going for, likable if a little transparent.
davek: I thought the wings were going to be snow.
Elizabeth: It fit with the overall mood of the story. You didn't seem to be going for a "twist" or spectacular ending.
anneliese: I thought for a while that they might presage fall.
Elizabeth: I liked the use of the rainbow...fit in with the theme of renewal.
anneliese: Would explain why so many faries seem to croak all at once.
Elizabeth: Oooh. That's an interesting thought.
camidon: I was going for a: deaths occur once a year all around the same time, and then the cloud storms. Different clouds have their "die-off" at different times, and that's why there are storms and rainbows throughout the year; however, couldn't have all the exposition.
anneliese: That was the only aspect of the story that seemed to bother me...that they had mass funerals....seemingly a generation dies off enmasse.
camidon: --didn't have room for all the exposition, and it wasn't all that necessary to the story
anneliese: True.
davek: Except for us analytical types.
Elizabeth: Well, mayflies do something similar...they reproduce and die en masse. It's odd, but not unheard of.
camidon: lol, Dave
anneliese: Actually, it would only take a sentence, during the principal's announcement.
anneliese: "now announcing...this year's renewal...the following students are excused..."
camidon: What do you mean, Anneliese?
davek: BUt if it is so predicable it would be planned in advance and all students would go.
camidon: ah, I see
anneliese: Nope, it has to be one child with parents.
System: Juanita joined us. Cheers!
Elizabeth: hi Juanita!
anneliese: Hi Juanita!
Juanita: hi all I just got home ant thought I'd see what's going on
camidon: Hello Juanita
Elizabeth: Not necessarily, Dave...perhaps the grandparent(Drunk hang on until one of the grandchildren is ready for the ceremony.
anneliese: Discussing CM's story.
camidon: That's a great idea, Anneliese, Elizabeth.
Juanita: good. Sorry CM I think my crit is still in my drafts file
davek: The ceremony is for all faries but those with grandparents are the participants.
Elizabeth: It's clear that Candello is small for her age, and wants really badly to go to the Festival of Wings, to show her maturity as well as find out what the big deal's about.
anneliese: The symmetry of the ceremony was fantastic...wouldn't change a thing there.
camidon: No prob, Juanita
Juanita: How many wings fall at once. The description made it seem like a very large amount
camidon: Dave, my intention was that only those who had a grandparent die could attend the Festival
Juanita: Do the wings retain life after the person has died?
camidon: Juanita, my intention is an infite amount, thousands of thousands. If every cloud has a colony of fairies...
Juanita: My crit covers th eimpossibility of an appendage bleeding after it9;s dead
camidon: No, once they fade from existence, the rainbow finally fades, then so do the wings
davek: If their life cycle is so fixed then all in the same grade would be having grandparents dying at the same time. Analytical to the max.
Juanita: I meant the bleeding while Can was cutting them off
camidon: Well that's good, I was wondering about that. I think Dave mentioned it in his crit
camidon: about the bleeding wings that is.
anneliese: <==agrees with Juanita, but still like the story as is.
Juanita: What happens if a person has more than one grandchild?
Juanita: So do I
Juanita: Like the story, that is.
camidon: So maybe the wings need to stay alive somehow, for a time, after the "spirit" has left a grandparent's body
camidon: then the wings die too after the rainbow fades
Juanita: You did touch on that indirectly.
Juanita: When you described how she could feel to know where to cut.
anneliese: I don't think it is much to fret about. They're faries...we don't have to understand their physiology.
Juanita: True
camidon: Dave, analytical to the core, but in my mind, their lifestyle is not that rigid.
camidon: That's true, but I do like to be consistent. Even though in Fantasy a writer makes his own rules, sometimes one should stick to some of the old
Elizabeth: They're fairies.
davek: Lifestyles of the rich and farie. But I said life cycle. Like the Mayflies mentioned earlier.
camidon: ok, life cycle In my mind, the are born anytime, but they die at specific times.
camidon: Juanita, about the more than one grandchild, that's kind of bothered me too...
anneliese: Each family has to have 2 children...one per grand parent.
Juanita: Maybe make it one of those things the eldest grandchild or one with a particular talent does
camidon: ...I suppose there are limits to reproduction among these faries. No more than four grandchildren
davek: Not a stable population.
anneliese: Didn't say that quite right...but the math should work.
camidon: But that would make for another good story: What would happen in that tradition was broken: a grandchild without a grandparnt to provide its "nourishing lifeblood" to the young
Elizabeth: Oooh, that is a good idea.
Juanita: I'd like to read that...
camidon: I'll have to tack that to my To-Do list
anneliese: We have twins...one wing per child?
Elizabeth: lol!
davek: I like the twins. It allows for population growth.
Juanita: Maybe one wing per child is the way it's supposed to be adn Can's older brother died so she had to do the whole job
anneliese: Ever watch clouds...they are constantly changing size.
Elizabeth: So the fairy populations would probably fluctuate as well.
camidon: that's right, cloud size all has to do with fairy population!
Juanita: I like that theory!
camidon: So when a cloud finally disappears...
Elizabeth: Fairy climatology!
Juanita: more fairies here
Juanita: Lost something there
anneliese: No rainbow when the cloud dies.
camidon: Its amazing how one story can open up so many more... If only the time
Juanita: We need more faries here
anneliese: A whole book around the cloud farie life cycle.
Elizabeth: Let me see if we can send some your way, Juanita. We've had severe thunderstorms the last two weekends.
davek: That could be the next Harry Potter.
camidon: Why not, I'm expert on the water cylce and rock cycle, why not Fairy Climatology?
anneliese: Works for me.
Elizabeth: I like it, CM!
Juanita: We'll take them..Forcast is for snow later this week
Elizabeth: Yikes! I know you're up north, but it's May...
Juanita: Yeah...
camidon: let's see if I can sell THIS story before any comparisons...
Juanita: Any market ideas
davek: Yesterday I mowed, sprayed weeds and then made sure the hoses were disconnected.
camidon: Dave, didn't you get like 6 inches in fort collins a week or two ago?
Juanita: ?
Elizabeth: I think you'd have good luck selling it to a YA magazine like Cicada.
davek: Not that much. It stopped half way past Denver.
Elizabeth: ralan.com should have the address, etc.
camidon: Jaunita, just the usual collection
davek: Check that engine... web site I posted in the forum. Maybe it can search for YA markets.
camidon: at places like Ralans, that Elizabeth mentions
Juanita: I've got to go, guys. Good night
camidon: I've kept my eyes open and seem like a number of potential fatasy markets. I'll look more into YA markets too
davek: Bye, Juanita.
System: Juanita left us (snif).
anneliese: Glad you could come, Juanita.
camidon: Thanks for dropping by, Juanita
Elizabeth: Alchemy would be another good one.
anneliese: Well, this is definately one to get out to the markets.
Elizabeth: <==agrees w/Anneliese
davek: http://engine.freeshell.org/ has a selection for children's markets
camidon: well, that's always good to hear
Elizabeth: And I probably need to let the dog back in before she starts gnawing on the house.
anneliese: Oh dear!
Elizabeth: thanks for the link, Dave, that's a big helpl!
davek: Bye Elizabeth.
davek: Bye Elizabeth.
camidon: This is one of the rare stories for me where I woke up one morning, had the beginning, the middle, and the end all of a sudden known to me
Elizabeth: She's a year old and has no idea why Mommy spends so much time in front of the glowing box.
camidon: Thanks for coming, Elizabeth
Elizabeth: Annoys her to no end.
davek: See you Wednesday Chris.
Elizabeth: Glad I could make it, CM. I hope my comments were helpful!
camidon: Absolutely, thanks
anneliese: Good chat, everyone.
Elizabeth: Good night everybody...it was good talking to you.
camidon: I'll be there, Dave. Thakns for coming everyone
anneliese: Niters.
davek: Bye all.
anneliese: Thanks for sharing your story.
System: davek left us (snif).