Submitted by acmfox on Wed, 04/07/2004 - 2:18pm

System: eddycurrents joined us. Cheers!
System: camidon joined us. Cheers!
camidon sez to everybody: Hiya eddy.
camidon sez to everybody: It took me six or seven tries to get
here....
camidon sez to everybody: Kept getting strange errors. Was about to
send a message to Anneliese. ..
camidon sez to everybody: You there?
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
eddycurrents sez to everybody: hey dave
davek sez to everybody: Hello
eddycurrents sez to everybody: hey chris
eddycurrents sez to everybody: yeah the temp directory permissions
were messed up
eddycurrents sez to everybody: I fixed them
camidon sez to everybody: hello
davek sez to everybody: Just pull a Microsoft and make it wide open
to anybody.
eddycurrents sez to everybody: for some reason they weren't set to
777 and the lockfiles weren't either
camidon sez to everybody: well, that's why persistence can pay off.
I figured I'd keep trying until it worked or i got mad
eddycurrents sez to everybody: hehe
eddycurrents sez to everybody: I wonder if it's because Anneliese
transferred the website, or something
eddycurrents sez to everybody: but the chatroom is in a whole other
directory
camidon sez to everybody: That seems like a good possibility
eddycurrents sez to everybody: oh well
camidon sez to everybody: At least you were around and were able to
fix them
eddycurrents sez to everybody: it seems every week it's something
eddycurrents sez to everybody: although I guess the last two chats
went fine without me
camidon sez to everybody: ain't that the truth about life
eddycurrents sez to everybody:
eddycurrents sez to everybody:
camidon sez to everybody: Dave, I thought you were traveling the
world or something for a little while?
camidon sez to everybody: dropping off the radar for a few weeks or
something like that?
davek sez to everybody: We leave tomorrow. I wasn't sure if I would
have the time today.
camidon sez to everybody: sheesh there's a lot of smileys
davek sez to everybody: Scrolling is not working so I'm going to
log off and back on.
eddycurrents sez to everybody: yep
eddycurrents sez to everybody: dave
eddycurrents sez to everybody: which browser are you using?
System: davek left us (snif).
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
davek sez to everybody: That seems to have fixed it.
camidon sez to everybody: I wonder if Anneliese forgot, or if the
site wasn't working when she showed up? so she left
camidon sez to everybody: lalala
eddycurrents sez to all: well if she did
eddycurrents sez to all: we would see it in the chat history
camidon sez to all: when you logged off, Dave, it froze my screen
davek sez to all: I see that the web site has moved for development
purposes. Any word fro our old webmaster.
eddycurrents sez to all: I just changed "everybody" to "all" ...
does that look better?
eddycurrents sez to all: less space on the line
camidon sez to all: yes
camidon sez to all: I'm assuming since the website moved, that
Anneliese was unable to contact Mark
camidon sez to all: It's moved and been partially updated!
davek sez to all: Chris, did you have to log off?
System: anneliese joined us. Cheers!
anneliese sez to all: Hi Everyone
davek sez to all: HI.
anneliese sez to all: Who was brave enough to fix the error?
eddycurrents sez to all: hi Anneliese
camidon sez to all: Hi, anneliese, we were just talking about you
anneliese sez to all: evil, I'm sure
eddycurrents sez to all: so what does iUniverse do, exactly to be our sponsor?
camidon sez to all: well, not about you, rather, of your presence!
anneliese sez to all: nothing, any more. I think.
anneliese sez to all: I couldn't get in earlier.
camidon sez to all: So what do we have to do, to switch sites using the old SFWW site to the new updated one??
eddycurrents sez to all: :sm013:
eddycurrents sez to all:
anneliese sez to all: Figure out where there were links to the old site and change them, I think.
eddycurrents sez to all: aha case sensitive
anneliese sez to all: Ooooh eddy, that is cool!
camidon sez to all: Did you say you were doing that Dave? Or jhad started?
System: joeg joined us. Cheers!
eddycurrents sez to all: nooo jihad
anneliese sez to all: Hi Joeg!
joeg sez to all: hello
camidon sez to all: whoops, my bad with the typo
eddycurrents sez to all:
davek sez to all: I will start once I get back. In two weeks.
anneliese sez to all: I didn't get the last 50 lines of chat, though.
eddycurrents sez to all: hmm should have
eddycurrents sez to all: it's a global setting
anneliese sez to all: Would have been handy tonight, having come in late.
davek sez to all: I didn't get them the first time I logged in and scrolloing wasn't working. So I loged out and back in. It locks up Chris though.
eddycurrents sez to all: I'm running under Mozilla Firefox and it seems most stable
camidon sez to all: Fabulous, Dave. I think that's the next big thing to do. We have an updatable website, now we just need to get it visible
camidon sez to all: Fabulous, Dave. I think that's the next big thing to do. We have an updatable website, now we just need to get it visible
anneliese sez to all: Seems to be random for me, one day it works, the next, no good.
eddycurrents sez to all: well tonight there was a permissions problem I had to fix
anneliese sez to all: So, you are comfortable with what I did with the website this afternoon?
eddycurrents sez to all: that's why no one could log in
camidon sez to all: I'm with Anneliese with regards to the chat. One day it works, the next...
anneliese sez to all: Thanks for the fix!
camidon sez to all: wtrg to the website, it's a great step
eddycurrents sez to all: the link to Your Hosts is busted, need to fix that one
anneliese sez to all: I didn't change the backgrounds yet...
anneliese sez to all: Actually, the original website had a broken link there as well, so I'm deleteing the host link for now.
camidon sez to all: There's a dozen things I jotted down about fiddling with it, but the basics are there, and that's what is most important
anneliese sez to all: Only a dozen? Get to work!
anneliese sez to all: I'm just glad that you had time to look at it at all!
camidon sez to all:
eddycurrents sez to all:
camidon sez to all: I don't know if you want to get into nitty gritty things to alter and fiddle with tonight, do we?
eddycurrents sez to all: how are you building the html pages?
anneliese sez to all: It can be done as emails, as well.
camidon sez to all: or do we?
anneliese sez to all: I work in Dreamweaver, mostly.
eddycurrents sez to all: looks like it's from scratch
anneliese sez to all: I had to rip out a bunch of junk that AOL inserted wrt banner ads, etc.
davek sez to all: Is www.acmfow.com/sfww/index.htm going to be the final URL?
anneliese sez to all: I used site reaper to get Mark's original site, and began with that.
anneliese sez to all: I might have to change the url to www.acmfox.com/sfww/index.html
anneliese sez to all: It seems that the ISP isn't loading it as '.htm'
eddycurrents sez to all: you can make both
davek sez to all: Not frontpage?
anneliese sez to all: Not frontpage! Never!
anneliese sez to all: Yes, I could make both.
eddycurrents sez to all: Frontpage :046:
eddycurrents sez to all: oops Frontpage
anneliese sez to all: lol
joeg sez to all: .htm loaded for me
eddycurrents sez to all: mind you, that's what I use, frontpage is convenient
anneliese sez to all: Now, that is wierd...maybe it was just a timing problem for me then. I thought it should load by just entering www.acmfox.com/sfww
eddycurrents sez to all: the browser should tack on the index.htm
anneliese sez to all: I tried frontpage once...for about 5 minutes.
eddycurrents sez to all: most will also try index.html and home.htm / html
davek sez to all: Actually I think the web server defaults to index.html.
camidon sez to all: www.acmfox.com/sfww worked for me just now
anneliese sez to all: It does normally, but didn't for me this afternoon.
anneliese sez to all: and default.htm/html
eddycurrents sez to all: it's apache so it wants .html, being unix based
anneliese sez to all: As I said, maybe it was a timing issue for me this afternoon...it was just after uploading it to the site.
eddycurrents sez to all: but it's the browser that adds the ending
anneliese sez to all: I've used .htm on other pages and it works.
eddycurrents sez to all: hmm that's not quite true is it
anneliese sez to all: I'll assume it was just me and leave as is.
anneliese sez to all: For links, you should be able to simply specify www.acmfox.com/sfww
anneliese sez to all: If I find a problem, I'll make it work.
eddycurrents sez to all: here's a question for y'all
eddycurrents sez to all: how much do you trust the word count on Word?
davek sez to all: Close enough I guess. Why?
anneliese sez to all: This smiley list is getting out of control!
camidon sez to all: Never thought about it, guess I do, Why?
anneliese sez to all: I trust it....however, you need to understand what it is Word is counting.
eddycurrents sez to all: I noticed it counts every word, even the and a
joeg sez to all: I read that it understates the word count, from a publisher's perspective
eddycurrents sez to all: do publishers count the and a?
anneliese sez to all: Yep, it counts everything.
anneliese sez to all: I thought they did.
camidon sez to all: I thought they did, but again, I never thought about it nor researched it
anneliese sez to all: Publisher counts are sometimes just a multiple of page and/or line values.
eddycurrents sez to all: I remember when I was a kid, and forced to do essays by word counts (a stupid way to get kids to write)
eddycurrents sez to all: we were told not to count words less than 3 or 4 letters, I forget
eddycurrents sez to all: so of course we puff out the essay to fill up the word count, and use long words
anneliese sez to all: That sounds like a 'teacher' count, not a publishing count.
eddycurrents sez to all: this is a trend that stuck with me when I started writing after school, and my boss cut it to pieces
camidon sez to all: sounds like a lot of writers I know... (not within this group of course)
joeg sez to all: line values
eddycurrents sez to all: writing in real life should be brief
eddycurrents sez to all: well I read an estimate that publishers use
anneliese sez to all: I've also heard that word count is really a function of character count, where one word=5 characters.
anneliese sez to all: Which was the function we used for tech writing.
anneliese sez to all: Once upon a time.
eddycurrents sez to all: 250 words per page on average
joeg sez to all: here's the article I read http://www.sfwa.org/writing/wordcount.htm
camidon sez to all: Here's a kooky word count story: First Elevator book: 41670; 2nd Elevator series book 51670, on the nose using msword count. 10,000 word difference. go figure.
eddycurrents sez to all: here's one I found too, and posted in our forum: http://www.acmfox.com/sfwwforum/viewtopic.php?t=54
davek sez to all: Look at old formatting directions. They say count the word on ten lines and the prorate the whole story.
eddycurrents sez to all: what do you mean first elevator, second elevator?
camidon sez to all: Speaking of forum, can we get links between the forum and website? Links to each place from the other?
anneliese sez to all: Yes, dave, that I what I remember as the standard rule of thumb.
camidon sez to all: my bad, 1st book I wrote (elevator 1); second book i wrote (elevator2)
anneliese sez to all: Re: links to site from forum, yes. Reverse, maybe not, because forum is private and website is public
davek sez to all: The word count was a way to estimate how much space the story would take.
eddycurrents sez to all: chris, how did you get the word vs. publisher counts?
camidon sez to all: now I'm writing Book III of: The Elevator to the End of the World
eddycurrents sez to all: ahhhhh I get it
eddycurrents sez to all:
camidon sez to all: I see, Anneliese, hadn't thought about that snag
davek sez to all: Put links in both ways. If they don't have a login they they don't get in.
eddycurrents sez to all: yeah
eddycurrents sez to all: although
eddycurrents sez to all: you might have to log in before clicking on the link
camidon sez to all: IIt would be useful though to have a link from the forum, as I often think about things on the website when I'm on the forum
anneliese sez to all: I'm not sure that there would be a reason to link to posts from the website...in essence, website should be somewhat generic and relatively stable.
anneliese sez to all: The forum is much more volatile.
System: davek left us (snif).
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
eddycurrents sez to all: well damn... I am at around 86k words for my novel
System: davek left us (snif).
eddycurrents sez to all: and if Word underestimates
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
anneliese sez to all: 86K, a goodly piece of work.
eddycurrents sez to all: you are supposed to keep your novel between 90k and 110k words
eddycurrents sez to all: I wonder if I'm over already
camidon sez to all: Not linking to posts of the forum, just to the forum itself, and from the first page after the log in page of the forum
davek sez to all: I got kicked off. All kinds of error messages.
eddycurrents sez to all: I'm shooting for 95k using Word's count
camidon sez to all: it did it to me again when Dave quit; my screen froze
anneliese sez to all: Certainly, there can be a link to the forum home page.
davek sez to all: Did we decide if there would be a public read only part in the forum?
camidon sez to all: we must be intertwined
camidon sez to all: I don't think we did, Dave
eddycurrents sez to all: how about pages? my novel is 159 pages single spaced using courier 12 pt font .. that too big?
anneliese sez to all: What would be the purpose of a public area?
davek sez to all: Chris, sometimes your lines come in double.
anneliese sez to all: Word count is more important than page count.
camidon sez to all: I'm haunted, that's all.
camidon sez to all: You weren't talking to me, were you Eddy, I lost all the previous chat when I had to refresh
davek sez to all: The public are is so prospective members can see what we post. Also if you just want to see if a reply has been posted.
eddycurrents sez to all: I was just freaking
eddycurrents sez to all: have I written too much???
anneliese sez to all: That depends upon the story, eddy.
eddycurrents sez to all: 86k words according to Word, or 160 pages single spaced
camidon sez to all: You can never write too muchthere's always the backspace key
anneliese sez to all: Not all stories fit within the standards...however, it maybe easier to publish if it does.
anneliese sez to all: These days, it seems that novels are getting longer and longer.
eddycurrents sez to all: well I'm estimating another 10k words to finish, then editing will probably take out a few thousand
eddycurrents sez to all: but I have read in several places a first novel should be between 90k and 110k words
camidon sez to all: wtrg to Dave's public forum: 1) is it possible to have nonmembers read our forum posts without posting, and 2) Do we want that as a group if it is possible?
anneliese sez to all: I'd worry about making the story perfect first, then worry about word count.
eddycurrents sez to all: longer and it's too risky to publish, shorter and it may be less attractive to readers
camidon sez to all: I agree with Anneliese. Words and pages are trivial compared to the actually story
eddycurrents sez to all: Chris: 1 = I don't think so, not with this version of software, and 2) I prefer not
anneliese sez to all: On the other hand, Chris, the forum is a 'member benefit'. Maybe we should just keep it that way
eddycurrents sez to all:
eddycurrents sez to all: oops my smileys crapped out
anneliese sez to all: hmmmm, the smiley pics just broke.
camidon sez to all: I don't really have a feeling one way or another. I see benifits to both. I just want to make sure we decide as a group (or at least those present)
System: joeg left us (snif).
System: joeg joined us. Cheers!
davek sez to all: Maybe a poll in the forum?
eddycurrents sez to all: sure... post one
camidon sez to all: this is a test, to see if my screen froze when Joe left
davek sez to all: Heads up Chris, I'm going out and back in.
anneliese sez to all: I think that if there is good information on the forum, then it can be used to improve the website.. e.g., links & reference material.
System: davek left us (snif).
joeg sez to all: I got timed out
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
camidon sez to all: That would be affirmative
eddycurrents sez to all: you're too quiet
anneliese sez to all: The forum is the place to discuss these things, talk about them. the website is the generic reference.
camidon sez to all: joe, what do you think? If it was possible to have nonmembers read the forum without the ability to post, would you be fore it, or would you prefer the forum to stay "members" only (again I don't really care one way or the other)
eddycurrents sez to all: well casual readers won't be interested in digging through forum posts unless they want to join
anneliese sez to all: Good point, eddy
davek sez to all: I look at it as an enticement to new members. If they see some forum topic they want to participate in then they would be more likey to join.
camidon sez to all: I agree with that
camidon sez to all: Heck, most
camidon sez to all: whoops, heck, most "members' don't wade through the forum
anneliese sez to all: Personally, it wouldn't have that effect for me...I'd never bother digging through a forum for something.
camidon sez to all: I do see your point, Dave
camidon sez to all: <aside>I feel like a politican agreeing with everyone...
anneliese sez to all: Even the forums for the professional groups that I belong to...I'll repost the question because I can never find the answer in the archives.
davek sez to all: Not something we need to decide now. We need to fix the website and then advertise it.
anneliese sez to all: True, Dave
camidon sez to all: well said
joeg sez to all: I think visitors should be able to lurk...to a point
anneliese sez to all: They can lurk in the chats.
joeg sez to all: something the read may compel them to respond...then they have to register
eddycurrents sez to all: http://www.phpbb.com/features.php
eddycurrents sez to all: I looked for that feature, but didn't find it
eddycurrents sez to all: if you want to have a bash, go for it
anneliese sez to all: Think about what attracted you to SFWW....
camidon sez to all: I like the chat lurkings
joeg sez to all: some areas have to be members only...idea parking lot
davek sez to all: Good point Joe. It depends on what the software supports.
camidon sez to all: <scratching head> What attracted me? um, the website and the setup of the group
anneliese sez to all: Hardly any message boards allow non registered users. If we wanted to allow 'lurkers',
camidon sez to all: therefore, website most important, forum secondary
joeg sez to all: I wanted a reality check on my witing...went looking for a group
davek sez to all: It had a lot of activity. I joined another at the same time but it was pretty inactive.
anneliese sez to all: we'd have to create a 2tier user group. One for SFWW members, the other for guests.
joeg sez to all: and I wanted it to be online. I don't have a lot of time for hanging out at the coffee shop
camidon sez to all: That's seems like its starting to get complicate. The less complicated everything is the better .
anneliese sez to all: That is my take on the features page.
eddycurrents sez to all: that may be possible
eddycurrents sez to all: I'm looking at the group permissions function, never really dug into it but there may be something there
anneliese sez to all: I wouldn't set up anything just yet...we have other more pressing items to fix first.
camidon sez to all: I think Dave is right, let's focus on the website first, then worry about whether nonmembers should be able to us our forum if possible
anneliese sez to all: Yes, stick with the plan we set up before.
camidon sez to all: If we have to, we can always send out a group email and put the idea to a vote (if it's even possible)
joeg sez to all: how are we planning to get the word out?
davek sez to all: The whole point is to get enough active members so that our chats, critiques and posts are useful. If we need to relax the participation rule then we do it. If we have enough activity with the new web site then we don't bother.
camidon sez to all: Free downloadable candy, and lots of it. Maybe a few free coupons, and a party with the President of Ogden college. That's how we get the word out... (umm, just kidding)
anneliese sez to all: I'm going to check how/where we are listed within AOL, and make sure that our contact information there is correct as a first step.
camidon sez to all: <seriously now> Good first step, AOL does provide a lot of our members
anneliese sez to all: If we are comfortable with the website being where I've moved it, I'll make sure we have the correct link within the AOL Writers community.
camidon sez to all: Once the wepage is active again, I feel it will solve a lot of our activity problems
anneliese sez to all: I agree.
davek sez to all: I agree Chris.
anneliese sez to all: I think it is now time to begin researching where the old link exists, and send out revised info.
camidon sez to all: Though I do think we can tinker all we want with the site, adding anything that might be useful, as long as it's organized
eddycurrents sez to all: how about enforcing the participation rules? start dumping the deadweight
anneliese sez to all: My guess is that as soon as folks are directed to an active website, we'll begin attracting new members again.
anneliese sez to all: I did dump about half the inactive members over winter.
camidon sez to all: Eddy, I'd say wait until new members start to join before we trash all the deadweight. Over time some of that weight emerges from hibernation
davek sez to all: What is the cost of the inactive members? Not much I think.
anneliese sez to all: I'll put out another warning with the April update.
anneliese sez to all: Not much cost, but kind of depressing for the active members, I think.
camidon sez to all: aka, DM for one critique in December, (which I seem to bring up every chat)
anneliese sez to all: lol
camidon sez to all: I think I've had too much PreEaster candy
camidon sez to all: I agree with the depressing part. Every time I print out a story, I look at the group list and mentally check off who is active, who is not, and who I've never heard of before
anneliese sez to all: I think the most important thing is to get rid of all references to the old website.
eddycurrents sez to all:
camidon sez to all: agrees once again
anneliese sez to all: We can begin doing that now, and be updating the website all along.
camidon sez to all: Took the words right from my typing box, Anneliese
davek sez to all: I was going to work on that, but since I'm gone for two weeks if anyone wants to start OK. I'll check with that person when I get back.
camidon sez to all: Question: Anneliese, are you the only one who can update the page?
anneliese sez to all: I think the word should be put to the membership at large that if anyone notices a bad link or reference, the let us know.
eddycurrents sez to all: I found out how to make some forums read only, hidden, private etc.
anneliese sez to all: Well, at this point, I'd like to say that I'm the only one.
eddycurrents sez to all: so if we want to do it, it's possible
anneliese sez to all: WTG eddy!
camidon sez to all: So if we have ideas for changes and things, we should email you? Correct?
anneliese sez to all: Since eddy maintains the forum & chat, technically, he can also update the webpages.
anneliese sez to all: (i.e., he has the FTP access info)
camidon sez to all: It would be useful to have others able to update the site, but at the same time I like restricted access as with more access there is more chance for problems or abuse
System: joeg left us (snif).
camidon sez to all: You're just a bag of knowledge, Eddy, or perhaps good detective skills
System: joeg joined us. Cheers!
anneliese sez to all: If it makes sense to allow others to edit pages, that can be worked out.
camidon sez to all: <score, my screen didn't freeze this time when someone quit>
davek sez to all: Maybe a forum topic to propose changes.
camidon sez to all: Or, I typed to soon...
joeg sez to all: is there a way to change the timeout? I'm multitasking
anneliese sez to all: I like that idea, dave
eddycurrents sez to all: yep I can change it
eddycurrents sez to all: I saw it somewhere once
anneliese sez to all: I think you just have to post once in a while, joe
davek sez to all: OK Eddy, I just went to one of the forum topic and it said sorry ....
camidon sez to all: Rats. I lost all the previous chat. Ah well
anneliese sez to all: As long as I don't lose it, I'll post it.
eddycurrents sez to all: right now the timeout is set to 10 minutes
joeg sez to all: I'm typically quiet
joeg sez to all: I'll work on it
eddycurrents sez to all: I can up it to 20 min
anneliese sez to all: No, we're typically noisy!
eddycurrents sez to all: done
joeg sez to all: cool, thanks
camidon sez to all: Are there any other major thoughts about the website?
eddycurrents sez to all: now if you still time out....
eddycurrents sez to all: Dave: were you logged in? which topic?
davek sez to all: I can't get into SFWW Business at all. In some other indivual topis are protected.
anneliese sez to all: I wonder if the ISP did something...hmmmm
anneliese sez to all: All was fine this afternoon.
joeg sez to all: I'm getting in them all so far
eddycurrents sez to all: ok I see what I did... should be fixed now
davek sez to all: Now I can get into it.
eddycurrents sez to all: there are like 8 permissions possibilities
camidon sez to all: As with the last few chats/weeks, I think we're rolling down the right track
eddycurrents sez to all: gotta figure out the right one
anneliese sez to all: I agree, Chris, I feel like a lot of progress is being made.
camidon sez to all: If only, Elizabeth could make a chat... seeing as she's technically in charge
anneliese sez to all: eddy, I'm amazed that you can keep this stuff straight at all!
eddycurrents sez to all: I'm an engineer, it's in the blood
anneliese sez to all: I'm sure she will get back into the swing of things.
davek sez to all: I have to go. See you all in twoweeks. Bye.
camidon sez to all: Anneliese, I'll scrutinize the website a little more tonight, then type up my suggestions for you, i.e, a critique of the current website...
eddycurrents sez to all: me too night all
anneliese sez to all: Bye, have a good trip.
camidon sez to all: cya Dave, have fun on your tri
System: davek left us (snif).
anneliese sez to all: Thanks, Chris, I'd appreciate it.
eddycurrents sez to all: I snagged the chat log
camidon sez to all: I'll try to keep it short and organized, but um, you probably know my critiques by now...
eddycurrents sez to all: I'll send it to you
anneliese sez to all: Fantastic. Will you post it, or send it to me? (I missed the beginning)
anneliese sez to all: lol, Chris.
anneliese sez to all: Thanks, eddy
camidon sez to all: I just missed the last few lines, as when Dave last, my screen froze
eddycurrents sez to all: done
anneliese sez to all: That is so strange.
camidon sez to all: Would you like me to send it to the group or just to you?
camidon sez to all: It's kind of strange picking up a conversation and not knowing exactly what came before!
anneliese sez to all: Doesn't matter...if you think it will spark the group into participating, send it around.
camidon sez to all: good gravy we're thinking a lot alike tonight
joeg sez to all: to whom should we send links to the AOL SFWW site?
anneliese sez to all: too scary!
camidon sez to all: What do you think Joe, Eddy? should I do a critique of the current website and sent it to the group?
anneliese sez to all: I'm not sure, Joe, but you can certainly send links to me.
eddycurrents sez to all: sounds good to me
eddycurrents sez to all: be gentle
camidon sez to all: Heck, you two could do them to if you wanted and had the time
camidon sez to all: That would be interesting
eddycurrents sez to all:
joeg sez to all: found us on http://www.forwriters.com/groups.html#online
anneliese sez to all: I think that when we request other sites to link to SFWW, that should come from either me or Elizabeth.
camidon sez to all: Be gentle... I'll do my best. I blame my flippant tongue.
anneliese sez to all: Good work!
joeg sez to all: it's pointing to http://members.aol.com/sfwwmoder/
camidon sez to all: I agree about that request
anneliese sez to all: I'm sure that is not the only one, Joe
camidon sez to all: Those technically in charge, should use there SFWW email and virtual names