Chat log for August 14, 2006

[14/08 20:59] *** DaveK has joined the chatbox
[14/08 21:00] Hello
[14/08 21:00] *** camidon has joined the chatbox
[14/08 21:01] hello
[14/08 21:01] HI Chris
[14/08 21:02] Thanks for that market reference
[14/08 21:03] np, spent a little time on the web today
[14/08 21:03] So, when I send the story back do I mention that I had sent it in once before?
[14/08 21:04] probably a wise idea, but mention the nice fit this time around?
[14/08 21:05] I will certainly do that.
[14/08 21:05] Have you ever read one of their issues?
[14/08 21:06] no
[14/08 21:06] Neither have I.
[14/08 21:07] I'm working on that GenE stroy but despite starting it twice I don't know where it's going to go.
[14/08 21:07] What's the plot thus far?
[14/08 21:08] Maybe I'll put it aside and polish up Contact one more time
[14/08 21:08] *** EHardage has joined the chatbox
[14/08 21:08] hello there! Sorry I'm late.
[14/08 21:08] The GE story is far down the voyage, the current generation is very radiation and gravity resistant.
[14/08 21:09] Then they discover some original humans in stasis.
[14/08 21:09] hello
[14/08 21:09] in a walled of section of the asteroid?
[14/08 21:09] To revive them they have to redo radiation shielding and reduce acceleration.
[14/08 21:09] Hi Elizabeth
[14/08 21:10] Yeah, hidden away. I make the old ones a mytical group of ancients and add in some current politics.
[14/08 21:10] that's an interesting idea, Dave.
[14/08 21:11] So then you don't know what to do once they are revived?
[14/08 21:11] So do the mutated humans revere the ancients? See them as throwbacks? Resent the extra work and delay required to keep them alive?
[14/08 21:11] I had planned on a Pollyanna story - all goodness, but I've been turned by the dark side.
[14/08 21:12] Both Elizabeth.
[14/08 21:12] Are there those among the current generation who didn't think the original humans should have been taken out of stasis?
[14/08 21:12] What if they don't make the transition and die off? And of course there's accusations of other plots...
[14/08 21:13] Two political factions, one side has been tricked into pulling the plug on them and giving the a nice ceremony.
[14/08 21:14] and what are they going to do with the original humans at journey's end?
[14/08 21:14] That's the easy part. The journey is long enough that tehy won't survive to the end.
[14/08 21:15] So is there a main character who has to decide if his or her great-grandmother should pass on?
[14/08 21:15] I was thinking a short, then a novella, now I'm wondering if it is a novel.
[14/08 21:16] "pull the plug?" Perhaps sometime of correllary. Just playing
[14/08 21:16] There is the current leader and the leader of the opposition.
[14/08 21:17] The current leader came out for revival and delaying the trip, so the opposition came out against it.
[14/08 21:18] It could be all of those, Dave, depending on how much of the story you want to tell.
[14/08 21:19] I was hoping that once I started writing the ending would come, but no such luck.
[14/08 21:19] Yes, could easily spiral into a big story. That's one of my goals, in my next few short stories, if I get to them... keep them tight, around 4-5k.
[14/08 21:20] I started writing it as a short but it refuses to stay that way.
[14/08 21:20] One problem I'm having is all the back story that is needed if I go the long route.
[14/08 21:21] what's the main conflict?
[14/08 21:21] Keep backstory to a MINNIMUM, imo
[14/08 21:21] Maybe I should write that either for a prologue or just to get it set in my mind
[14/08 21:22] *** acmfox has joined the chatbox
[14/08 21:22] The main conflict is the two political sides struggling for power and these people in stasis as the pawn
[14/08 21:22] Hi Anneliese
[14/08 21:22] Drop the characters in the middle of the conflict. If it fits intos GenE, I don't believe a lot of backstory will be necessary for each story; especially if it's a later story.
[14/08 21:22] Hi Anneliese
[14/08 21:22] hi Anneliese!
[14/08 21:22] Is this one of your phone conference nightes, Anneliese?
[14/08 21:23] Hi Dave!, CM!, Elizabeth! Sorry I'm late.
[14/08 21:23] You can always slip bits of the backstory into the action.
[14/08 21:23] No phone conference tonight, but working late to finish a project before they all arrive here on Thursday.
[14/08 21:23] CM, now that we have a quorum, did you want us to discuss your sub?
[14/08 21:23] Chris, at first I thought "drop" ment remove, instead of put.
[14/08 21:23] sounds like fun, Anneliese. Sticking out tongue
[14/08 21:24] my bad
[14/08 21:24] hey, I finally got a new version of Firefox, and the chatbox isn't booting me any more. Smiling
[14/08 21:24] Hooray!
[14/08 21:25] I do think I need to do the backstory, at least to get it set in my mind and to set the history of these stasis people. That turns out to be important.
[14/08 21:26] setting it in your mind can be very important.
[14/08 21:26] Elizabeth, weather.com used to kill my early version of Firefox. Now it seems to work.
[14/08 21:26] By all means do the backstory...then leave most of it in your notebook. Smiling
[14/08 21:27] Smiling
[14/08 21:28] Anneliese, Elizabeth, Oceans of the Mind is doing a first contact story (Thanks Chris for the pointer) Ihad send my Contact story in a year ago. Question, do I mention that when i send it in again?
[14/08 21:28] Are you resending the same sub to the same place?
[14/08 21:28] If you do, say that you've rewritten it.
[14/08 21:29] Unless, of course, they've changed editors in the meantime. Smiling
[14/08 21:29] That's the plan. WHen they rejected it they said they didn't have a theme issue for it. Now they do.
[14/08 21:29] also mention his conmments
[14/08 21:31] I'd mention the comments... as a way of saying that you're responding directly to this reqest.
[14/08 21:32]
[14/08 21:32] Good, no one says not to try again. Since it's e-mail it won't even cost me anything.
[14/08 21:33] I agree with Anneliese.
[14/08 21:34] Agreement all around.
[14/08 21:36] (Either I'm missing most of the posts, or I killed the chat)
[14/08 21:36] CM, did you want to discuss your sub tonight? Or save it for another time?
[14/08 21:37] Is it my night?
[14/08 21:37] Yup.
[14/08 21:37] If you have feedback, go for it.
[14/08 21:37] (Sorry, it's going to take me a while to get to writing a critique)
[14/08 21:38] I think the story is really coming along.
[14/08 21:38] Pacing seemed good.
[14/08 21:38] Loved the appearance of Tin's grandmother, especially after Tin sees her gravestone on the island.
[14/08 21:38] We now have a real mystery on our hands.
[14/08 21:38] I agree with Elizabeth.
[14/08 21:38] Though...
[14/08 21:39] I would have liked a bit of transition between the two chapters.
[14/08 21:39] I have some major issues with these two chapters, so feel free to let loose.
[14/08 21:40] nodding, very valid criticism, Anneliese. I agree.
[14/08 21:40] OK, letting loose here...
[14/08 21:41] IMO, much of chapter 3 didn't feel germain to the story.
[14/08 21:41] I wondered if you could have set up the situation better...
[14/08 21:41] I didn't need a transition. But I did wonder about Tin's fixation on the gravestone
[14/08 21:42] with stony silence on the ferry home, rather than the school day.
[14/08 21:42] While I like the chitchat between the girls, and between her and her brother, but they seem kind of peripheral to the story.
[14/08 21:42] Ack. Lost my train of thought there.
[14/08 21:43] I think I'd like to hop on that train... sounds like it's going in the same direction I was trying to go. Smiling
[14/08 21:43] There's a lot of narrative in Chapter 3. You do some delving into Tin's thoughts, as she tries to make sense of the camping trip, but I'd like to see more.
[14/08 21:44] Have it interfere with her day-to-day existence, or hint at problems to come.
[14/08 21:44] Does she see dragons under the microscope when she should be observing onion cells?
[14/08 21:45] Or wisps of menacing fog?
[14/08 21:45] Find herself drawing the gravestone when she should be taking notes?
[14/08 21:45] Maybe it gets foggy as she's making her way home.
[14/08 21:46] Doing calculation related to the birth/death dates?
[14/08 21:47] These few scenes have yet to gel for me, so all this is very useful.
[14/08 21:47] ...She was twelve and had her social standing figured out much to her mother's dismay. ...
[14/08 21:47] ... will this figure later in the story?
[14/08 21:47] Anneliese, that line is already deleted.
[14/08 21:48] Never mind, then. Laughing out loud
[14/08 21:48] I like the drawing the gravestone thought.
[14/08 21:48] Yeah, I'd think she'd be trying to figure out the dates, and thinking, "Grandma can't possibly be that old."
[14/08 21:48] Or just repeatedly writing the inscription rather than taking notes.
[14/08 21:50] Will Tin's school buddies be part of the story overall?
[14/08 21:50] Or her siblings?
[14/08 21:51] Ryan and the Grandmother are the two major other characters, as well as, Burfield
[14/08 21:51] I remember you mentioning with your last sub that her brother would play a role.
[14/08 21:51] How much do you have written and/or outlined?
[14/08 21:51] her friends and a few others, sister, parents, play strong supporting rolls.
[14/08 21:51] ...perhaps Chapter 3 needs to focus more on developing the relationship with Ryan than the other girls.
[14/08 21:52] Dave, this was my Nov Nano project. The whole thing is done, and I'm doing major rewrites before I sent each section off.
[14/08 21:52] I think you need some action soon.
[14/08 21:52] If Ryan is the typical older brother, he can be a good foil for Tin and her dragonish visions.
[14/08 21:52] You mentioned that you have issues with this sub... Care to share?
[14/08 21:53] And a good source of tension, if he doesn't believe her/is acting in opposition to her.
[14/08 21:54] Nothing specific, Anneliese--doesn't feel likes its gelled to me, mostly. But I know the transitions between sections is bad. Don't quite feel I've got the dialogue clicking. I feel like I have what I need, but it's not organized well. I'm showing things that aren't really necessary, and forgetting to show one or two things that are necessary.
[14/08 21:56] I think David has a point--you need some out-and-out conflict soon.
[14/08 21:56] We need to see Tin in a dilemna of some sort.
[14/08 21:56] Yes, you might have had an opportunity for some conflict with Tin and the girls... serious peer pressure opportunities there.
[14/08 21:57] Or, she could get detention for bringing a book on dragons rathern than her English text to class.
[14/08 21:59] I think that's another good point. Tin's TOO passive in the early going.
[14/08 22:00] Maybe a dream at the end of chapter two. Sort of a prologue for the battle between the dragons and bears.
[14/08 22:01] Or during school
[14/08 22:02] I'm thinking of putting Burfield into Chapter 2 and not have the parents know or see their meeting; basically have it happen after Tin finds the grave, which I believe is interesting, but not quite interesting enough.
[14/08 22:02] Daydreaming mitodraconia
[14/08 22:02] ANd her grandmother knows about it
[14/08 22:03] Any thoughts?
[14/08 22:03] What is Burfield's role?
[14/08 22:03] I kind of like it where it is... so far.
[14/08 22:03] I think it's a given that her grandmother will know about things like this.
[14/08 22:04] Burfield is the sympathetic villian
[14/08 22:06] I'm not sure about the dynamics of having Burfield encounter Tin without her parents around just yet.
[14/08 22:06] or maybe not so sympathetic. Tin will have something he wants, in order for the Bears to destroy the dragons. Essential plot; Tin must balance the war between the Dragons and Bears...
[14/08 22:07] Burfield on one side, grandmother on the other and Tin in the middle?
[14/08 22:07] is she supposed to keep the two sides from destroying each other?
[14/08 22:07] So... Dragons and Bears must ultimately balance each other, with neither dominating?
[14/08 22:08] What if she contacts Burfield (phone or e-mail if she can't get back to the island right away) to ask about the story, and try to get some more information?
[14/08 22:08] Essentially, Dave, though there is another character, Mugwa.
[14/08 22:08] Especially if her parents won't volunteer any information.
[14/08 22:08] Yes, Elizabeth
[14/08 22:09] Mugwa is the Odawa Bear representative; Tin's Grandmother is the Dragon representative, and Burfield is an accidental perversion of the balance--his ancestor was caught in the Bear and Dragon crossfire, and the Burfield family has taken sides, upsetting the balance.
[14/08 22:10] Tin is then called on to balance out Burfield.
[14/08 22:11] I don't want to keep anyone later than usual tonight. I'll submit a few more chapters soon so we'll discuss this again soon.
[14/08 22:11] Unless Burfield's ancestry is Odawa, does that work?
[14/08 22:11] Huh, Anneliese?
[14/08 22:12] Tin is related to the Dragon through ancestry.
[14/08 22:12] Correct
[14/08 22:12] Is the grandmother grooming Tin to take her role?
[14/08 22:13] So, an imbalance should be corrected either by another neutral party, if Burfield is neutral.
[14/08 22:13] Or the imbalance would be due to an excess of Bear.
[14/08 22:13] so does Mugwa have a present-day representative?
[14/08 22:13] ... to be mathematical correct, that is Eye-wink
[14/08 22:13] Correct, Dave. But Burfield is not neutral. He's firmly on the side of the Bears, thus why I had Tin be on the side of the Dragons.
[14/08 22:14] Does that balance?
[14/08 22:14] Yes, Elizabeth, Mugwa will come in soon.
[14/08 22:15] Don't know... I'll have to read the story!
[14/08 22:15] That should balance things out...
[14/08 22:15] Yeah, it's a little messy. I blame Nano! Smiling
[14/08 22:15] Is the grandmother brining Tin in early to help against Burfield?
[14/08 22:15] lol!
[14/08 22:15] It's much better than i thought, but there's still plenty of kinks to work out.
[14/08 22:16] In a sense, Dave.
[14/08 22:16] Well, I'm certainly looking forward to reading more.
[14/08 22:17] so am I...but I will have to sign off soon. Send more soon!
[14/08 22:18] Do you want this chat saved?
[14/08 22:18] Yes please
[14/08 22:18] Thanks for the feedback all.
[14/08 22:18] Your wish is my command Smiling
[14/08 22:19] Time sure went fast tonight.
[14/08 22:19] Have a good week. Let me know how the GenE story goes, Dave. Look forward to reading it.
[14/08 22:19] Gnight all.
[14/08 22:19] Yes, everyone... have a good night and good week.
[14/08 22:19] It's being slow to come out.
[14/08 22:20] Bye, til next week.
[14/08 22:20] Nighters.
[14/08 22:20] good night all!