[DaveK] Hu guys

[DaveK] Hi is what I ment

[anneliese] Hi Dave!

[anneliese] Hi Juanita!

[Juanita] Hi everyone

[Juanita] This is new.

[DaveK] This is operating upside down today. Last week the new messages were on the bottom.

[anneliese] I'm playing with it.

[Juanita] Does anyone know how to make the latest messages go back to the bottom of the screen?

[anneliese] CM thought it worked better for him this way.

[anneliese] I can switch it back.

[Juanita] Ohl Well. In that case, I'll play with you.

[Juanita] could be CM's just a little upside down?

[DaveK] BRB, I'm switching browser windows.

[anneliese] They should switch back, I think.

[anneliese] Well, I don't understand this too much

[DaveK] OK it's on the bottom now.

[Juanita] We'll manage.

[anneliese] Maybe if you left and returned as Dave has, it will reverse.

[Juanita] The only advantage to having the latest line on the bottom is that then it is beside the typing window.

[DaveK] Is that something you can manage in your profile?

[Juanita] Okay, I'll try that.

[anneliese] I wish

[Juanita] Hey! That worked

[Juanita] I thought of another advantage. This way us bifocal biddies don't have to tilt our heads back to focus on the top line

[DaveK] I agree with both.

[Juanita] So, shall we talk writing?

[DaveK] Sounds good.

[Juanita] I'm trying to start a new project and have done a page and a half in two weeks

[anneliese] brb

[DaveK] Is that chapter 3?

[Juanita] Not sure if I'm just not ready to plunge into it yet or if I'm having a terrible case of procratination

[Juanita] No. I've got a complete draft of Geoff's story done. this is a new one

[DaveK] I started a new story about time travel and have now written myself into a corner.

[Juanita] What kind of corner?

[DaveK] The protag has gone back in time for a simple job and now finds that he is not when he is supposed to be.

[DaveK] Unknow to him he has been sent back so the bad guy can change the past.

[DaveK] It was supposed to be a humor story but that went away.

[DaveK] So now I don't know when he is or how he long he will be there or what he is going to do.

[Juanita] I find humor is hard to write. My funnies are usually one liners in the middle of other stuff

[Elizabeth] hi there! Sorry I'm late.

[Juanita] Do you work from an outline?

[DaveK] HI Elizabeth.

[Juanita] Hi Elizabeth

[DaveK] I was just describing my quandry.

[Elizabeth] I used to hate outlines, but now I find myself doing them.

[Elizabeth] For short stories at least. If I can break them up into scenes, I can keep them from getting too ornate.

[DaveK] The stories I've done always depart from the outline and wander into the unknown.

[Juanita] I find that, for anything longer than 2000 words or so, they save loads and loads of time.

[Elizabeth] brb

[Juanita] We scared her off

[anneliese] back

[Juanita] I don't usually wander off my outline because if I don't know precisely where I'm headed I have trouble getting there.

[DaveK] I'll have to think about it over night. Sometimes that works. Other times I simply stay up all night.

[DaveK] BTW, Juanita, if you register on the login screen you can get an icon next to your name.

[Juanita] I wondered where they came from

[Juanita] I thought I filled out all the boxes when I logged in.

[anneliese] Oh, now the whole side panel is green (sorry)

[DaveK] It took me a while because I thought I was registered from the ld chat room. But we're not.

[Juanita] Green is georgeous

[DaveK] It has always ben an olive green for me.

[anneliese] I think I'm back. Had to take a phone call. Yep, I like it better than the blue... matches the site better, I think.

[anneliese] Olive green??? You mean tonight. Not last time.

[DaveK] So, Juanita, what is your new story about?

[anneliese] I was switching out the colors (and fixing the link colors) before you came.

[Juanita] Ummm, I'm not that observant. don't know what color's it's been

[DaveK] Olive, aqua, I'm a guy, see my icon. All I know are the primary colors.

[anneliese] Never mind... It's story talk time now

[Juanita] this one is about a ateenager working with his uncle and great grandfather to catch a small comet for the ice

[DaveK] Ooh, sounds like hard SF. I like it already.

[Juanita] It's intended to be 13,000 to 15,000 words long. I've done about 350

[anneliese] Sounds intriguing.

[Juanita] I like it too, I just haven't written it yet!

[Juanita] So, any thoughts on where I've taken Geoff this chapter?

[Elizabeth] okay, I'm back.

[anneliese] What struck me most, was the amount of description you put into this chapter.

[Elizabeth] I liked the final scenes the most--where Geoff is trying to dance with Chin.

[anneliese] Yes, those were done well.

[Juanita] Yeah, I've had a comment or two on that. I'me trying to set the stage so I don't have to describe a lot later

[Elizabeth] I thought you did a good job balancing the description, the action, and Geoff's reactions (which I loved).

[DaveK] I don't get that. The description seems to be of an erotic dance but you have two guys. Is it supposed to be that.

[Juanita] I can just have him move from place to place within the station

[Elizabeth] You may need to break up some of the other descriptions--for instance, I wasn't sure we needed so much detail about Geoff's apartment.

[Elizabeth] Unless there's a particular room, or item, which is going to figure in later in the plot.

[Elizabeth] Then you might want to briefly describe that room.

[Juanita] Erotic is only in the eyes of the beholder. to the performers, it's just the movements.

[DaveK] There is an old saying - If you put a shotgun in scene one you have to use it by scene three. It refered to plays but I think the application here is if it is important describe it, if not don't.

[Elizabeth] That was the fun part for me, Dave. You've got Geoff--who, like most teenage boys, is hyper-concerned about his masculinity--or at least how other people view his masculinity.

[Juanita] A lot happens in that apartment, including cookie dough fights

[Elizabeth] He's in a situation where that image could be in real danger.

[Elizabeth] I like the idea of low-grav cookie-dough fights.

[anneliese] I loved how you described the low grav wrestling.

[DaveK] Only if they're important. The holo seemed to describe a fairly erotic dance.

[anneliese] Jumping over the dining room table, etc.

[Elizabeth] <==agrees w/Anneliese

[anneliese] Really set the character and place for me.

[Juanita] It was fun to picture. Wish I could try it.

[Juanita] Yes, Not sure if you had a chance to read chap one

[Juanita] Where Geoff saw the three different classes of the dance

[DaveK] Of course my analytic self was wondering if .7 g was enough for that behavior.

[anneliese] Moon is .6, isn't it?

[DaveK] I thought the moon was less. Arn't they on a station - variable gravity.

[Juanita] at .7 you lose about 2/3 of your weight, right.

[Juanita] His home is on a light deck School and dance hall are one gravity

[DaveK] NO at .7 you have .7 of your weight.

[Juanita] I said that first line there wrong. make it lose 1/3

[anneliese] 2/3 = .667

[DaveK] He got off at some sign that said .7 was that his home?

[Juanita] close enough for this purpose

[Elizabeth] so lunar gravity would be closer to .16 g...I think you weigh one-sixth of your Earth weight on the Moon.

[Juanita] I think...

[Elizabeth] But it's been a long time since my last physics class.

[DaveK] 1/6 sounds familiar.

[anneliese] OK, then I had the '6' in the wrong place.

[DaveK] Therefore you are - Juanita.

[Juanita] I'll have to check that. maybe move them up a deck or two

[anneliese] I got the sense that this is one humongous space station... how many inhabitants?

[Juanita] Thousands

[DaveK] Good question. At what weight do you get to float a bit.

[Juanita] Tens of thousands

[anneliese] Seems like it should be tens of thousands, at least.

[Elizabeth] good question, Dave.

[Juanita] I don't think you really float until you're into the very light decks. On the other's you'd just have really good hang time.

[DaveK] And the closer they get to the axis the more coreolis forces will curve their jumps,

[DaveK] Anneliese, when are you getting that spell checked integrated into this chat room?

[Elizabeth] get far enough in and everybody is Michael Jordan.

[anneliese] LOL, Dave!

[Elizabeth] even I could play low-grav basketball.

[anneliese] Juanita, do you have other questions for us?

[Juanita] Not sure. Did I take care of my usual error of introducing too many characters at once?

[Juanita] I think I trickled them in this time.

[anneliese] I had no problems with the number of characters introduced.

[anneliese] Not sure about how you brought in the parents' names, though.

[anneliese] I bumped a bit there.

[DaveK] The introductions seemed OK to me.

[Juanita] I can't remember..did you meet the whole gang this chap? Or is that in the next one

[Elizabeth] I was okay with the number of characters. A lot of description, thought. Slowed the pace down quite a bit.

[anneliese] Sister and both parents.

[Elizabeth] I don't think we've met the whole gang yet. Family, Chin and Lui, Geoff's friend.

[Juanita] Hmmmm. If I move the description to later of delete it altogether, are people going to lack 'placement'?

[Elizabeth] I think a brief description of the apartment, at first. Dribble in a new set of details each time you revisit the place.

[Elizabeth] The description's good, you just need to distribute it more evenly. Avoid expository lumps.

[anneliese] Hard to say. I'm trying to think about the wrestling... if that scene is important, how much of it depends on *seeing* the apartment first.

[DaveK] I usually skip all that description when I read a story unless it is about some alien land or artifact.

[DaveK] Sometimes I do have to go back anf read it but not often.

[Elizabeth] Just describe the parts of the apartment they land on while they're wrestling.

[Elizabeth] Or the areas they're trying not to crash into as they tussle.

[anneliese] Yes, the living room area is important, but the kitchen layout is less so.

[Elizabeth] Not that teenage boys are careful about that sort of thing...

[Juanita] So you're saying I don't need to describe it until something happens there.

[anneliese] We need to know that it's a *shotgun* apartment, but we don't need to know where the lasagna is kept.

[Elizabeth] Right.

[DaveK] In my opinion only describe it if the description is necessary to the plot.

[Elizabeth] Just enough detail so we know, say, Geoff's family's status--is it smaller, older, further out than most?

[anneliese] That's an interesting point, Dave. As I was reading Juanita's description, I thought, oh, boy, I need to add a lot more description in my writing.

[Juanita] Pretty well all Geoff's interaction with his family happens there. It is where you see how Chin's

[DaveK] I think it is a matter of taste. I care about the ideas not so much about the humdrum details.

[Juanita] extortion affects Geoff's relationship with those he loves

[Juanita] It's kind of cool, having some people think I've too much description

[DaveK] A lot of writing books say to involve all your senses. That never seemed right to me. NOt for SF anyway.

[Juanita] I've been told more often that I haven't put enough in

[Juanita] I believe in it. if an alien stinks, we should know about it

[anneliese] I think it is partly a matter of balance, and a matter of style.

[DaveK] If later on the smell of the alien gives it away.

[anneliese] I've always been intrigued by how much detail a reader will insert, given just a few clues.

[Juanita] I'm also a pretty tactile person. I like to know how things feel to the touch -- tough I don't imagene teenage boys think about that

[Elizabeth] True. Perhaps what you should focus on is what's different, what an earthbound reader wouldn't expect.

[anneliese] Sometimes, the reader's imagination is better than the writer's.

[Elizabeth] Teenage boys seem to be mostly visual.

[DaveK] Only about how teenage girls feel.

[Juanita] LOL

[Elizabeth] At least from my experience. The senses of smell, hearing and taste are pretty muted (especially when mom's talking).

[anneliese] I thought it was interesting that Geoff noticed Chin's cologne.

[Juanita] I figured he couldn't help it. In close proximity, after a bit of exercise, it would be obvious

[DaveK] I'm thinking about how movie adaptions of books I've read interperted things differently.

[Elizabeth] I also expect that Chin would go a bit heavy on the cologne.

[Elizabeth] seems in keeping with his personality.

[anneliese] I guess I just don't associate cologne with dancers.

[Juanita] Movie makers never seem to get the books quite right.

[anneliese] Hi Terri!

[DaveK] The cologne was a nice touch. I wouldn't have thought of it.

[Juanita] Hi Terri

[DaveK] Hi Terri.

[DaveK] Are you a time zone off?

[DaveK] Or daylight savings time?

[Elizabeth] the cologne made sense to me. Chin's probably also into big gold jewelry and shiny suits.

[anneliese] Works for me

[bogwitch64] ack! I'm in!

[anneliese] Or should it be something other than gold, being a space station culture.

[anneliese] Yes, you made it!

[bogwitch64] Hi Juanita

[Juanita] I don't think I ever go there ... to jewelery, that is

[bogwitch64] I've been trying to get in since 10:20

[Juanita] Hi again, Terri. good to see you here.

[Elizabeth] sorry to hear that, Terri.

[bogwitch64] I finally noticed another chatroom link on the site and tried it. Whew, now I know

[bogwitch64] Ok, sorry to have interupted

[Juanita] I think we're almost done so throw in your two-bits worth!

[Elizabeth] There'll probably be some new form of bling-bling by then. Specially anodized, rainbow stuff. Holographic display bling.

[DaveK] NO, this is good to know. There is a bad link on the SFWW home page -right?

[anneliese] I'd like to see holographic tatoos.

[DaveK] Holo bling - good idea.

[bogwitch64] I clicked on chatroom rather than the link, Dave

[DaveK] Anneliese - there is a link to http://www.acmfox.com/sfwwchat on teh SFWW page

[bogwitch64] Juanita, is this a first draft or one of several?

[DaveK] The online chat page.

[anneliese] Oops. Another bad link to fix, huh.

[bogwitch64] that's the one I COULDN'T use. I used the chatroom off to the left

[Juanita] It's a second or third revision, depending what chapter you're reading

[bogwitch64] There is a whole lot of great information in there. Stuff YOU need but your reader won't. Gotta pick and choose what will interest vs. what will bog things down.

[bogwitch64] You really know how to worldbuild

[Juanita] My first chapters always seem to need the most work

[bogwitch64] Same here

[anneliese] (Fixed now, Dave)

[Juanita] I thinks I'm maybe talked out. Thanks for all the input

[Elizabeth] thanks, Anneliese.

[DaveK] Thanks for the story. Are there any more in the queue?

[Elizabeth] I hope it helps, Juanita. I'm intrigued by what you have so far...I definitely want to see more.

[bogwitch64] Sorry I was so late

[Elizabeth] Especially how Geoff develops as a dance partner.

[DaveK] Elizabeth.

[bogwitch64] oops, sorry, was there a cue/protocol set up???

[bogwitch64] oops queue

[anneliese] No protocol.

[Juanita] First he tries to get out of it, of course

[DaveK] I was refering to more stories to critique.

[bogwitch64] oh, whew

[Juanita] we just go ahead an talk, answering things sort-of in order

[anneliese] Yes, Dave there are more chapters in the queue.

[Juanita] I'll be sending chap three out next, in a couple of weeks, I think.

[anneliese] We only do protocol where there are a lot more folks, and they get rowdy

[bogwitch64] Are the crits usually due in the first Monday of the month?

[bogwitch64] Anneliese

[Elizabeth] Crits are usually due two weeks after the submission goes out to the group, Terri.

[anneliese] Crits are usually due each Monday, the story is circulated 2 weeks prior.

[bogwitch64] oh, gotcha

[bogwitch64] So next week is???

[anneliese] Open, I think. We don't have as many subs for the AOL chats.

[DaveK] NO story for next week.

[Elizabeth] let me see...Dave's right. No story for next week.

[DaveK] Do you want to peopose a topic?

[bogwitch64] gotcha, thanks

[Juanita] Got a kid needing help with homework. Got to go.

[Juanita] good night, all. thanks.

[DaveK] Today we beat up Juanita and that developed into a discussion about how much description is needed in a story.

[bogwitch64] I guess we're done here for the night?

[DaveK] Bye

[bogwitch64] Poor Juanita

[anneliese] Niters, Juanita.

[Juanita] I loved it

[Elizabeth] good night, Juanita. Keep sending us chapters!

[anneliese] I'll post the chat on the log, but to see it now, use the show command.

[Juanita] Bye

[Elizabeth] Now I probably need to sign off before my dog goes insane...

[Elizabeth] she's having a hard time adjusting to my being gone all day.

[bogwitch64] nice meeting you all! I'll be on time next week

[anneliese] Sorry I haven't sent you anything, Dave. Turned out to be an insane week for me.

[Elizabeth] good night, Terri, glad you could make it!

[DaveK] Bye. I guess it is time to go.

[anneliese] Glad you made it eventually... Sorry for the bad links

[anneliese] Guess we all have to move on.

[DaveK] Next week. BYe

[anneliese] Niters.