[05/06 20:56] Hello Roy
[05/06 20:57] How's it going?
[05/06 20:57] *** camidon has joined the chatbox
[05/06 20:57] Is there a meeting tonight?
[05/06 20:57] Evening all
[05/06 20:57] Yes, just starting
[05/06 20:57] Hi Chris
[05/06 20:57] Hi, Cam
[05/06 20:57] Roy, there's a meeting if we say there's a meeting! Smiling
[05/06 20:58] What say you?
[05/06 20:58] Roy, one problem with your chatsettings is that the black text is hidden in the chat log page
[05/06 20:58] ???
[05/06 20:58] Since I spaced the chat last week I went there to see whaat had gone on.
[05/06 20:59] Assuming I don't fall asleep during it :smt015
[05/06 20:59] We'll try to keep you entertained. Chris
[05/06 21:00] Isn't that supposed to be my trick?
[05/06 21:01] Roy, I think I'll chat in smileys tonight. Here's my comments on your story: :smt031 :smt075 :smt043 :smt117 :smt089 (interpret as destired)
[05/06 21:02] You make it too easy
[05/06 21:02] Thanks, Dave
[05/06 21:03] I chose them at random, and no, I don't pla to chat in smileys. I'd do this: :smt068 to myself.
[05/06 21:03] Are we discussing Roy's story tonight?
[05/06 21:03] How's Colorado, Dave
[05/06 21:04] Hot and dry. We had a good snow yeaar but after that it has rained very little.
[05/06 21:04] Quite honestly, I didn't really think that story would work
[05/06 21:04] Dave, I thought so. Aren't Roy's story comments due today, which means its chat night for his story?
[05/06 21:05] The snow sounds good, but the rest sounds typical
[05/06 21:05] My story isy excerpted from a novel
[05/06 21:05] If he wants. I always thought it would be better to have the chat one week after the critiques were due.
[05/06 21:05] Why's that, Dave?
[05/06 21:05] Hotter and dryer then typical.
[05/06 21:05] *** EHardage has joined the chatbox
[05/06 21:06] hi there!
[05/06 21:06] Hi, eliz
[05/06 21:06] Give the author some time to think about the critiques. Plus, as a group we have been late.
[05/06 21:06] Why do you think it's better to chat a week later?
[05/06 21:06] ah
[05/06 21:06] Hot and dry would be nice. Right now I'm stuck with hot and humid.
[05/06 21:06] Hi Elizabeth.
[05/06 21:06] Evening, Elizabeth
[05/06 21:07] how's everybody doing?
[05/06 21:07] Gives the author time to shake off some of his angry
[05/06 21:07] Right now it's about 68 with a nice gentle breeze
[05/06 21:07] Had two glorious sunsets the past two days
[05/06 21:07] we are 70
[05/06 21:07] I hate you. Eye-wink
[05/06 21:07] It got up to 97 this afternoon.
[05/06 21:07] Why?
[05/06 21:07] *** acmfox has joined the chatbox
[05/06 21:07] We're probably 88 and 10% humidity
[05/06 21:07] You can spam me, Roy, if you feel the need, or toss egg at my Toyota, whichever is easier.
[05/06 21:08] what's wrong with 97?
[05/06 21:08] 97 and humid is pretty wretched, IMO.
[05/06 21:08] I'll try to huff and puff some of the weather down your way, Elizabeth, though that probably means it would snow here in northern MI.
[05/06 21:08] not in Nebraska
[05/06 21:08] lol CM!
[05/06 21:09] I was in Miami once98 and 98.. It was raining lightly ut hard to tell.
[05/06 21:09] I like snow, though, Smiling
[05/06 21:09] My thermostat was set in Minnesota and fine-tuned in Northern California. I don't do hot summers very well.
[05/06 21:09] Hi Everyone!
[05/06 21:09] Hi Anneliese
[05/06 21:09] hi Anneliese!
[05/06 21:09] Evening, Anneliese
[05/06 21:09] I saw 98 / 98 in Texas once
[05/06 21:10] Roy, do you wish to discuss your story tonight, or would you prefer to wait a week, as Dave suggests?
[05/06 21:10] no -- that is a fake -- Annaliese won't be here tonight
[05/06 21:10] I'm here, roy
[05/06 21:11] Just a wee tad tardy.
[05/06 21:11] Anyone have anything important to say about my story?
[05/06 21:11] It's just dawning on me that people who write scifi/fantasy are strange.
[05/06 21:11] I love the ecosystem and the culture you've set up, Roy.
[05/06 21:12] LOL! CM, it took you this long???
[05/06 21:12] It's going to be very hard for you to explain all of that and still keep a story going. Smiling
[05/06 21:12] TYT
[05/06 21:12] Did you say that it was part of a novel?
[05/06 21:12] Although you said this is part of a novel...that would give you enough space to explain everything about this world.
[05/06 21:12] yes
[05/06 21:13] This sub had very much the feel of a first chapter.
[05/06 21:13] Tupoin are wierd
[05/06 21:13] I agree with Elizabeth.
[05/06 21:13] This story is scatterwed out over half the book
[05/06 21:13] I don't know about that, Roy, they seemed pretty normal in your sub.
[05/06 21:14] Way to complicated for a short.
[05/06 21:14] Even if part of a novel, I strongly believe this could easily work as a short story.
[05/06 21:14] Did you extract parts for this sub, then?
[05/06 21:14] The world is complex, but not the plot.
[05/06 21:14] I agree with both Elizabeth and CM
[05/06 21:14] yes -- the story of Ving
[05/06 21:14] I like the Tupoin, but they're a sufficiently alien culture that you will either need to 1) make this a novel to get in all of the exposition or 2) plunge right into action so compelling that the reader will dig on for details of what's going on.
[05/06 21:15] MOst he compplexity of the world is not needed in the story
[05/06 21:15] If the world details are carefully chosen to support the story, the story of Ving would be a winner.
[05/06 21:16] perhaps I can rewrite it deleting much explanation
[05/06 21:16] and let the reader wonder
[05/06 21:17] To make it a short, yes. But it is an intreging ecosystem, keep it around.
[05/06 21:17] I think you can.
[05/06 21:17] Ving's story is compelling, and the outcast-makes-good story is one people can easily relate to.
[05/06 21:17] Even when the protagonist is a marine alien.
[05/06 21:17] It wasn't hard to grasp the basic alien culture you were describing.
[05/06 21:17] two or three minor comments on their world
[05/06 21:19] In the first few paragraphs I knew what was going on, and therefore was waiting for the plot to unfold, waiting, and waiting, and waiting, slowed down by the lush, but unnecessary descriptions.
[05/06 21:19] And there is some excellent dialogue that could be used to imply what their culture is like. Like the one where one of Ving's coworkers asks her how she learned mothers' music and she says, "No, I'm not a mother. I still have my senses."
[05/06 21:20] Then I found the plot, went: "hey, this is interesting," then the detail overload came back and knocked me off my surfboard.
[05/06 21:20] Yes, I agree, Elizabeth.
[05/06 21:20] Or where she reminisces about how her former teacher "gave in" to her hormones, thinks about what a good mind went to waste, and then says to herself, "Well, perhaps some of these calves are hers."
[05/06 21:20] Is this story believable as to its character?
[05/06 21:20] I fully believe, most of the needed detail came come out in the scenes and doesn't need to be "narrated"
[05/06 21:21] The descriptions have some excellent writing, but you've got to spread them a little thinner.
[05/06 21:21] As I said in my critque, was reminded of hal Clement's stories, Mission of Gravity for example.
[05/06 21:21] For me, the story was very believable.
[05/06 21:21] That is #1 for me
[05/06 21:21] It may be a good idea to review that and see how he introduces and alien world.
[05/06 21:22] What do you mean to its "character"?
[05/06 21:22] Do you mean were the characters believable?
[05/06 21:22] A vivid description of the calf roundup--what Ving sees and smells, what the panicked calves do and look like and how Ving and her companions react--would pull the reader right into the story, and go a long way towards explaining the culture.
[05/06 21:22] I with you again, Elizabeth.
[05/06 21:22] Can I grant the mental telepathy without explaining jellies?
[05/06 21:23] characters and story circumstances
[05/06 21:23] I belive Ving's character was absolutely believable. Werlekti's was not so well crafted, more of a "stock" feeling.
[05/06 21:23] I think so. Save the jellies and parasites for the novel.
[05/06 21:24] h, you can give them telepathy without explaining its source
[05/06 21:24] If you could show Ving or Werlekti using the computers, maybe.
[05/06 21:24] I believe Ving's situation was also believable. It was so believable, that I kept skimming, trying to GET to her story.
[05/06 21:25] Or Werlekti, in an insensitive moment, wondering aloud why Ving wasn't converted into computer interface long ago.
[05/06 21:25] And then rwegretting his thought?
[05/06 21:25] I also found Ving very believable, and skimmed other parts of the story to get back to what she was doing.
[05/06 21:26] Yes, you can "grant mental telepathy without explaining jellies" This reeks of novel material. Scifi readres are familar enough with the concept that you don't need a scientific rational, at least, imo, for a short story like this.
[05/06 21:26] Perhaps. Could be an example of Werlekti's bureaucratic and traditional instincts battling with his basic decency/wish to do the best thing for the harvest.
[05/06 21:26] That might help
[05/06 21:27] Because he does strike me as, basically, somebody who wants to do the right thing.
[05/06 21:27] It's just that his view of the right thing is so narrow.
[05/06 21:27] he is
[05/06 21:27] That's a very good character summary, Elizabeth.
[05/06 21:28] It would have taken me twelve sentences to say that.
[05/06 21:28] Werlekti got hung up on Ving being "abnormal"
[05/06 21:28] In my usual hard viewpoint, I'm more interested in the boilogy then the personel problems. Bwith this you can satisfy both types of interest.
[05/06 21:28] which is a very "human" reaction, this why this is good "human" fiction.
[05/06 21:29] si
[05/06 21:29] Exactly. Even though they're aliens, we can relate to them.
[05/06 21:30] all sci-fi wouild fail w/o empathy
[05/06 21:30] I agree with Dave; it's simply a matter of blending the two. Anything sniffing of hard scifi with a sympathetic character WILL sell.
[05/06 21:30] I'm going to leave and try IE to see if it drops my characters. Back soon
[05/06 21:31] I really nmeed a co-writer for some of my work
[05/06 21:31] And you have an extremely sympathetic character in Ving.
[05/06 21:31] I'm hoping that when the next update becomes available, there's an improved chatroom.
[05/06 21:31] Ving is a #1 sweetheart
[05/06 21:32] Why do you feel that you need a co-writer?
[05/06 21:32] more versatility
[05/06 21:33] More than you get from the critique process?
[05/06 21:33] I feel that way sometimes. I need someone to keep me working.
[05/06 21:33] Or more idea generation?
[05/06 21:33] mmmmmmmm -- if used correctly
[05/06 21:34] (I'm trying, Dave!)
[05/06 21:34] I guess we all do... hence our attempt at the collaborative GenE project.
[05/06 21:34] I need someone depending on me to give me a sense of urgency.
[05/06 21:34] I'm too easy on myself.
[05/06 21:35] I agree, Anneliese. Some ideas just dwarf my mind (like GenE) and I need others to bounce ideas
[05/06 21:35] and sometimes even that fails?
[05/06 21:35] I'm guilty of that also, Dave.
[05/06 21:35] I need somebody to say, "The laundry, the kid, and dinner are taken care of. Now WRITE!"
[05/06 21:35] Dave, are you implying you need a "deadline"?
[05/06 21:35] And to roll me out of bed earlier in the morning.
[05/06 21:36] Deadline, sort of,
[05/06 21:36] Gosh, Elizabeth, I can SAY that. It just won't make it true unfortunately.
[05/06 21:36] And to chill an occasional bneer for me
[05/06 21:36] I work best from a list of "to dos" I need to try that in my writing.
[05/06 21:37] Love beer, but I don't find it conducive to writing. Smiling
[05/06 21:38] I installed a new journal program as a means to help me with my writing... hasn't helped yet, though Sad
[05/06 21:38] To do: 1) Write, 2) Edit, 3) Write, 4) Critique, 5) Submit, 6) Read Critiques, 7) Egg Toyota, Cool Grumble, 9) Write. There you go, Dave!
[05/06 21:38] That's one of my problems with having a job. I come home, have a beer and then lack ambition.
[05/06 21:38] Damn, my 8 turned into a smiley!
[05/06 21:38] I need to locate the long lost enthusiasm of my youth
[05/06 21:38] What did you install?
[05/06 21:39] We need to have our in-person workshop.
[05/06 21:39] a lack of enthusiasm
[05/06 21:39] We can do that?
[05/06 21:40] That would be fun. When I sell my first book, I'll use a portion of the proceeds to arrange an SFWW workshop rendezvous.
[05/06 21:40] Maybe once my job is over, it now looks like it will drag into July, I will spend some effort into finding a local writing group.
[05/06 21:40] lol Anneliese...the one thing that absolutely kills my motivation for writing is a journal.
[05/06 21:40] I wrote pages and pages every day in middle school and high school...except when I was assigned to keep a journal.
[05/06 21:40] This is a program that lets you collect your notes and thoughs into one place, sift and sort them.
[05/06 21:40] Then I found it hard to crank out 500 words a day.
[05/06 21:41] I've been considering one of those software programs that lets you write a scene at a time and switch them around.
[05/06 21:41] I thought it would be a good place to trap my hundreds of little "useless information" files and organize them.
[05/06 21:41] Amazing how making something a requirement kills all desire to do it.
[05/06 21:41] The most comfortable writing technique for me, when I was younger and writing a lot more, was to write a given scene, and then figure out how to string all of the scenes together.
[05/06 21:41] Sort of what Lotus Notes is supposed to do, but fails miserably, IMO.
[05/06 21:42] Roy, any other questions on your story, before we stray to far into other subjects/rants/joys?
[05/06 21:42] I've gotten better at stringing scenes together, but terrible about putting the scenes on paper. Or PC.
[05/06 21:42] There is something called ywrter from spacejock that is supposed to be a novel organizer.
[05/06 21:42] I am ok with where my story is
[05/06 21:43] let's stray
[05/06 21:43] I have a crit started, I'll be getting it to you sometime.
[05/06 21:43] great
[05/06 21:44] Need to get several crits out. My apologies.
[05/06 21:44] This chat has helped to crystalize my thoughts into something (I hope) might be coherent.
[05/06 21:44] I'm still mulling over CM's story. I promise a crit one of these days... if you still want it.
[05/06 21:44] Anneliese, (tangent) is the axe falling yet, on (drum roll), the purge?
[05/06 21:45] A chat has done good, then.
[05/06 21:45] Sure, Anneliese. I always enjoy feedback, no matter how early or late or anything else
[05/06 21:45] Yes. It is supposed to. I meant to do the update last week, but work got in the way.
[05/06 21:45] How does that happen?
[05/06 21:46] LOL
[05/06 21:46] I haven't written a lick in two weeks (though I have done some editing, but not on the Folly)
[05/06 21:46] Plus, Boris sent me tons of suggestions on how to promote the group. When we have an open chat night, perhaps we can discuss some of them.
[05/06 21:46] I'm trying to keep up my writing in too many stories at one time
[05/06 21:47] Sure, lets plan to talk about that next
[05/06 21:47] week
[05/06 21:47] You have to get Folly *out there*. An Roy, you have to make Ving's story a novel.
[05/06 21:47] it is a novel
[05/06 21:47] want to buy a copy?
[05/06 21:48] And I have to either get going on my GenE story, or post my thoughts on the wiki.
[05/06 21:48] Have you already published it then?
[05/06 21:48] Boris was a pistol, that's for sure, lots of energy, but frankly all talk and no action... I quell my rioutous tongue
[05/06 21:48] I have my gen E story almost done -- I want to see MORE of them
[05/06 21:49] Boris wrote some nice reviews, though.
[05/06 21:49] IF you want Roy, I can send you my GenE stories, for starter reference.
[05/06 21:49] My novel has been published
[05/06 21:49] I have one started. Just have to finish it. I have a terrible time finishing anything lately.
[05/06 21:49] I was hoping to tlak Boris into writing something about screen plays, formats, how to market, but he came and went too fast.
[05/06 21:50] Published? Where?
[05/06 21:50] E-mail me anything == I love to read almost as much as writing
[05/06 21:51] they both went to the group before you returned to the list
[05/06 21:51] Published in 1997
[05/06 21:51] Let's see: I have trouble finishing projects, getting measurable work done, starting, um, need I go on?
[05/06 21:51] understood
[05/06 21:52] Like a hamster in a wheel, Anneliese? You're great anyway
[05/06 21:52] Who published it?
[05/06 21:52] So, Roy, in creating this short story, were you trying to create something in the vein of the novel?
[05/06 21:52] Title?
[05/06 21:52] Gee, thanks, CM.
[05/06 21:52] Come on man, we need specifics!
[05/06 21:52] I got the last of my tomatoes planted today and my peppers too
[05/06 21:53] Yes, I'll buy a copy.
[05/06 21:53] Tell aRidge Pub Co published my book
[05/06 21:53] We want to lavish you with praise and profits and a little egg yolk.
[05/06 21:53] I own Tell Ridge
[05/06 21:54] Yes! More power to you.
[05/06 21:54] Roy, were you ever around when Bruce Golden was in the group? He did the same thing.
[05/06 21:55] Title is Survival - Roots of the Rose
[05/06 21:55] And I have Bruce's book.
[05/06 21:55] I do not know Bruce
[05/06 21:55] I remember Roots of the Rose.
[05/06 21:55] email me details for ordering... how much and where I send the check.
[05/06 21:55] You have a copy?
[05/06 21:56] Anneliese, to continue the metaphors (what's up with all my stupid analogies lately?) better to spin the wheel than to do nothing at all. We're all in the same wheel.
[05/06 21:56] Now that you say the title, it rings a bell.
[05/06 21:57] I can't find a web site. But www.tomfolio.com has a copy for sale.
[05/06 21:57] To order send $15 (Retail price) to Roy Gugat , PO Box 524, Hickman, NE 68372
[05/06 21:57] ditto, Anneliese's question.
[05/06 21:58] I don't have a copy yet. But I do remember a couple of your submissions from that work.
[05/06 21:58] oops
[05/06 21:59] $15 is the wholesale price
[05/06 22:00] Did I submit chapters?
[05/06 22:00] Dave K == You alwso have a boo0k out?
[05/06 22:01] No, I have done shorts mostly. One try at a novelfor nanowrimo
[05/06 22:01] I love to trade books
[05/06 22:01] lishing
[05/06 22:02] I think you had the intro to the novel, or something like that. It was a long time ago. Smiling
[05/06 22:02] whoops, don't know where "lishing" came from. weird.
[05/06 22:03] A civil war sci-fi story?
[05/06 22:03] I'll say this for SFWW. At least, there are interesting people, with interesting ideas, who can have darn neat discussions.
[05/06 22:04] Amen
[05/06 22:04] with that segue, I'll intone my farewells for the evening.
[05/06 22:04] We did keep you awake Chris
[05/06 22:04] Hubby is stomping on the floor... my signal that it is time for bed.
[05/06 22:04] bye bye
[05/06 22:04] I pester you all to keep writing. And agree with Roy about getting some GenE stories into the SFWW queue.
[05/06 22:04] Very true, Dave. Mucho txs!
[05/06 22:05] okay...nighters all!
[05/06 22:05] Great chat, everyone. Let's all get at least 50 words written by next week Smiling
[05/06 22:05] Have a very gnight and good week, all
[05/06 22:05] Nighters, everyone!
[05/06 22:05] Can't publish a book of short stories without the stories
[05/06 22:05] See you all next week. BTW, I simply spaced last week, forgot it was a Monday.
[05/06 22:06] Got a crit for next week?
[05/06 22:06] *** EHardage has left the chatbox
[05/06 22:06] Bye.