Chat log for July 19, 2004

System: davek joined us. Cheers!
anneliese : Hi Dave!
davek : Hi Annaliese. Oops, Ann.
anneliese : Oops...guess I gotta change my nick.
davek : How are things going? I'm trying the firefox browser today.
anneliese : I've been reading good things about that one on another message board.
anneliese : Don't know if there is a mac version, though.
davek : Neither do I.
anneliese : Guess I'll stick with netscape for a while longer.
davek : I owe you a few things. A worlds wiki write up, and comments on the latest mods to the web site.
System: camidon joined us. Cheers!
anneliese : Hi CM!
davek : HI Chris.
anneliese : No rush, I guess, Dave, things have been awfully quiet....
camidon : Howdy folks
anneliese : Of course, that also means that some of us have too much time to play with this.
camidon : Anneliese, did you get my email, this morning? It came back to me once
anneliese : Nope...don't think so.
camidon : I'll send it again, then
camidon : For some reason, my emails to Elizabeth were being bounced back too
anneliese : hmmm. That doesn't bode well. Do you know what the error was?
anneliese : I did get an email from Bob today.
camidon : "The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors"
anneliese : What address did you use?
camidon : that's all. For both you and E. Thought it might be some AOL thing, but I don't know.
davek : The mail may still go through.
anneliese : It kind of sounds like it could be an AOL thing.
anneliese : One day, AOL wouldn't let me see the mail from my office manager.
davek : Bunnner.
anneliese : She sent me so many emails that day, AOL wanted to call it spam.
davek : Oops, bummer.
camidon : That's what I thought too. E's did not, it came back permanently. Anneliese's has yet to come back permenantely so my guess is it is going through
anneliese : Yep, I got your email. 5 mins. ago.
davek : What have you guys been doing? I actually put pen to paper for the first time in months yesterday.
camidon : So what's up with you two as I've been AWOl for a while? The group on a whole seemd dead, though now there's at least a few crits and old faces reemerging
anneliese : I'm trying to write...added a 'graph to Mike's entry on the wiki page.
anneliese : Mostly, though, I've been recouperating from the Chicago fiasco and trying to look for business.
anneliese : Everything with SFWW has been so dead of late...I'm hoping it is because of summertime distractions.
davek : I've been wrapping up a project. ANd maybe starting another. Both are pretty iffy.
anneliese : I have gotten a couple of emails inquiring about membership, though, so our advertising is beginning to work.
camidon : Just started wading through the first revision of my 2nd Elevator book. Dabbling at a few short stories, but mostly I've been to busy to do anything, as we all slip into from time to time.
davek : Not writing projects though.
camidon : YES! Oh that's good to hear, Anneliese.
anneliese : Have we seen a whole elevator book?
davek : How did they find us?
anneliese : I set up a AOL group for SFWW.
anneliese : Both came through that.
camidon : Anneliese, Nope, my next submission is the chapters 9-11. I'll get it all out to you eventual (the first book)
anneliese : I sent out a few more letters asking for web link apparent response in that dept.
camidon : Well, that's a start, AOL folks. Least something good is coming from that arm of SFWW. Still got to find a way to bump up our seach results so Mark's old page isn't at the top of the list.
anneliese : And, I've been fooling around a lot with the wiki.
davek : I would say that well over half the web sites out there get created once and never updated.
anneliese : I've been updating the website pages with stuff that is supposed to help with search engines.
anneliese : <==agrees with dave.
davek : I was doing a web rewrite for this little startup I work with. I would ask for reviews of my proposals, new info and get back nothing. I gave up.
anneliese : Actually, CM, I got both of your emails now.
camidon : I think I emailed you, Anneliese, but I liked the format of the "resources/links" on the website
anneliese : Yep. getting web content (or any kind of content) is like pulling teeth.
camidon : Well that's good, Anneliese. At least they're going through. Wonder what the hang up. To much vertual traffic across the lines
anneliese : I've spent the last week updating my's hateful coming up with content!
davek : I saw a movie about the rise nad fall of a dot com. The web master is saying give me what you want don't just tell me to make it wizzy.
anneliese : Glad you like the new links should be easily expandable as we grow.
anneliese : lol, Dave
davek : How about the 'cover letter" page Chris?
camidon : There;s a cover letter page? Hadn't gotten that far.
anneliese : I like the cover letter page.
anneliese : Good job!
anneliese : I think I changed one typo.
davek : My great contirbution tothe web is not to provide links but to provide the search terms for Google.
davek : No more out of date links.
anneliese : I submitted the site to the Netscape search also, per your suggestion.
davek : Only one. Remember my story - Proactive Reincarnation, about the man becoming a dog. Well after all my reads and the groups I just found a typo in it.
anneliese : And I put the keywords into the home page...still have to do the rest of the pages.
anneliese : I think that every time you revisit a piece, you'll find a typo somewhere...gremlins get in or something!
anneliese : brb
camidon : There's always one more typo It's so frustrating.
davek : Yeah. Have you been caving?
camidon : Me, caving? Um, yes, way too much.
anneliese : Is there such a thing as too much caving?
camidon : Tomorrow, for example, I'm going on a 15 hour exploration trip.
davek : What cave? Where?
camidon : There was a week I was in the cave all day on tours, then after hours, I was in the cave training people, exploring, filming, or some other nonpaid activity. Gosh it was fun, but I was getting no sleep and no writig related stuff done.
camidon : This is all at Wind Cave, NP, in SD
davek : I'll have to look it up.
camidon : You can read some of the stuff I've done here:
anneliese : Well, if I could afford the time and the trip, I'd be one of your worst visitor pest!
camidon : Scroll down to May and April
System: emptykube joined us. Cheers!
anneliese : Hi!
camidon : if you check out the trip reports. Wind Cave has a huge website, one of the best in the NPS (national park service)
camidon : Hey Mike!
emptykube : hello
anneliese : tells me can't be found.
davek : HI Mike.
emptykube : how is everyone?
anneliese : Lamenting the quietness of the group.
camidon :
camidon : Go here. And try a second time. Some times the NPS websites decide to go on coffee break, but come up on the second try
emptykube : yeah very slow couple of weeks!
camidon : Moving through the summer at a frenzied pace, Mike. It's such a complete contrast to my winter months.
davek : I found it.
anneliese : I can get the site, but not your page. It says it is an unknown or expired web page.
davek : CHris's link worked for me.
camidon : Shrug, anneliese, see the coffee break comment. Try it a few times. Other then that, No big deal really.
davek : So how come no cave oriented SF stories?
camidon : I'm working on then, Dave. ONe about Mars, one about Ice caves on Triton.
emptykube : spalunking on triton?
camidon : Haven't found a really good plot yet.
davek : How about one about an asteroid being explored for possible use as a intersteller ship?
camidon : That's on the list too, Dave.
anneliese : Wondered how you were going to work that one out, Dave.
emptykube : ooohhh that's a good idea, dave!
camidon : Those are my three idea, none of which I've really done anything with, for lack of time.
davek : My wife says I'm ornery. I don't know why she says that.
anneliese : lol
camidon : I immediately thought about an asteroid cave exploration trip for the GenE project, just haven't brought it up.
anneliese : Did anyone look at the liquid stone exhibit?
camidon : liquid stone? No. care to explain?
davek : I came up with the term - biosmith. Like wordsmith or blacksmith but this is a gene manipulator.
davek : I looked. Very interesting.
emptykube : the liquid stone thing was kind of cool. haven't had time to really digest anything yet,
anneliese : I posted it on the wiki. New and experimental uses/adaptations for concrete.
anneliese : I really loved the idea of hollowing asteroids and the asteroid mining site.
anneliese : Although the mining methods described seemed like different technologies.
davek : SOmeone is talking about an asteroid mission where they just crash into it to see if that could be used in case an earth colider is discovered.
emptykube : me too....trying to figure out how to write a story with all the right elements.
davek : There was an article in Astronomy about the search for earth like planets.
anneliese : And that dogbone shape...spured some ideas.
anneliese : Have you posted a link for the Astronomy article?
camidon : Liquid stone seems like an oxymoron. I'll have to look into the post
emptykube : I like the dogbone asteroid. also like the name. Kleopatra
davek : I saw the article in the magazine. I'll check for a web site.
anneliese : May not be available online.
davek : I'm sure that the Society to Prevent the Desicration and Exploitation of Asteroids will stop you Empty.
anneliese : lol
davek : That is of course another story idea.
camidon : Dave is right, can't forget about those who would absolutely oppose the stellar colonization project.
emptykube : same could be said for any solar system body used. but such a Society might make an interesting element in the overall story line
camidon : PLenty of possible tension when you have plenty of groups opposed to the main theme of the universe creation
anneliese : Could add some great tension.
davek : Has anyone seen I, Robot?
emptykube : no...
anneliese : Wasn't impressed with the reviews.
camidon : Nope, though I want to. I have the feeling Asimov would be raging fits in his grave though
anneliese : I'm watching the building of the I Robot bike right now..
davek : I bought the I, Robot book just to see what Asimov had written.
anneliese : Yep, I wondered about that, too, CM
anneliese : I haven't read the book since high school. Don't remember too much.
anneliese : I loved Asimov's nonfiction, but never cared all that much for his SF.
camidon : I Robot is a collection of short stories.
davek : That's the last I read it. Pretty good but only one agressive robot.
davek : Yeah, it's shorts. There are more and a novel ot two.
camidon : THe movie is more based on "The Caves of Steel" Asimov's second book in the Robot series where a HUman and robot have to investigate a Robotic murder.
davek : Now you tell me. I'll have to pick that up.
anneliese : Now, that makes more sense...thanks for explaining that.
davek : I've been going through Stephen King's Dark Tower series.
anneliese : That is one Asimov sf that I did like.
camidon : The robots NEVER go berzerk, as Asimov was fundamentally oppose to that. The whole point of the Three Laws was so that Wouldn't happen . He was tired of all the "killer robot" earlire stories and set out to write a universe where there were robots, there were problems, but that the machines would never run awol. Asimov was an optimist with his robot series.
davek : That's what I thought.
System: emptykube left us (snif).
anneliese : Yep. Reminds me of the Beast Master movie...nothing at all like the book that supposedly inspired it.
davek : I think they try to justify the behavior by they are trying to protect us from ourselves.
camidon : So. I just really, really, really, wished they hadn't named this movie "I Robot" Whether it's good or bad, it's just not the Asimov vision, and to associate his name to it, is a slap in his "grandmaster" face.
davek : The local paper had an article about how hard it is for the movie people to make a SF movie. Any deviation and the fans of the book get upset.
anneliese : Have you noticed that sf books are much more 'thoughful' than movies?
anneliese : That sounds like hype to me, Dave. Sort of justification for movie madness.
davek : The paper talked about Blade Runner and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind.
camidon : Anneliese, that's because the scifi genre is associated with the "action" genre. (with few exceptions) For better or worse
anneliese : You're right. Action and horror, but not much to do with good speculative fiction.
davek : In both of those the movie ending was very different then the story.
camidon : Look at ALien series, pitch black, Star Wars, Last Starfighter, even Blade Runner.
camidon : Same with Minority Report (a revamped Dick short story)
davek : Were Alien annd Pitch Black stories?
camidon : Few exceptions: Being John Malcovich. K-Pax Maybe Close Encounters
camidon : Dave, No, those were original movies.
davek : How about - Chronicles of Riddick? Pure Hollyword action SF.
davek : And Termonator 3. I liked the ending.
camidon : I do want to see that. But they turned a very good SciFI horror movie with good characters, into (what I heard) was a bad sequel.
davek : WHich one ?
camidon : I hated T3. (though not the ending. Just thought it was way to predictable)
camidon : Pitch Black,
System: emptykube joined us. Cheers!
davek : Really? I expected a happy Hpollywood ending. Not for the robot to be devious.
emptykube : sorry. i'm having some hardware issues. may not be able to stay much more if i disappear suddenly, please don't be offended
davek : Still there I got an error message.
camidon : Still here.
anneliese : Sorry to hear that, Mike.
davek : It was a bad sequel. BUt a lot of action.
emptykube : trouble with either video card or monitor
camidon : that's no fun, Mike. Last year, my monitor began smoking, and a small board ignited. Ugh.
emptykube : yuck!
davek : It was a bad sequel. BUt a lot of action.
System: davek left us (snif).
System: davek joined us. Cheers!
camidon : If SciFi movies don't have action, they usually die in the box office. See Sphere (I liked) and Solaris (I think I liked) both based on books.
davek : The gremlins are out. I had some network problems.
anneliese : Well, we do have to be honest...movies & books are a business.
camidon : Don't jinx me!
davek : WIth different audiences.
anneliese : And in both media, we try to do what it takes to sell a product.
anneliese : We also want some artistic value, but we still work within the economic constraints.
camidon : Sadly, movies are fast replacing books. I read some article somewhere that stated reading was down by all ages, races, areas, etc. Something like 2 out of 5 people don't read any books a year.
anneliese :
emptykube : gremlins for sure! I'm getting blackouts ever time the monitor refreshes, but its the second monitor i've used in two days. (old one to replace the one i thought had burned out.) noe i'm thinking something more serious is wrong!
davek : So we write screen plays.
davek : Graphics cards are cheap.
camidon : Sorry to hear that Mike.
camidon : Screeplays? Don't think I'll go there. Though, Bruce has had experience with that (although he's no longer in the group, les sigh)
emptykube : arrgghhh!!! I'm gonna sign offf o I can take an ax to this thing:) have fun all!
System: emptykube left us (snif).
davek : I think with all my TV and movie watching I think more in visual than written modes. I seem to like dialog.
davek : By empty. Good luck. Uplug it before you go to sleep.
anneliese : I sometimes wonder about writing scripts.
camidon : I'm visual too, more dialogue oriented, but I don't really want to touch the TV/Movie medium. TO much chance to lose all my principles, what few I have left.
davek : Actually, I think you need to be in Los Angeles to make a go of it.
camidon : We should set up another GenE chat, to solely discuss more issues, and for the fun of it.
davek : You don't lose them. You sell them for big bucks.
anneliese : I wouldn't even know where to begin with script writing.
davek : Then after you have the bucks you make art films.
anneliese : I agree, CM.
camidon : Very true, Dave. Very true. I've never been one for big bucks, and working for the NPS proves that!
anneliese : You could be self employed like me and make even less, CM!
camidon : Bob Friedman, did a bunch with play writing. Maybe we could have him chat about it sometime.
camidon : Lol, Anneliese.
davek : I bought a Star Trek Voyager script book. Mostly formating but I remember a stroy where a book author was showing a script to someone. The reader, an experienced movie person just glanced at it and said wrong.
anneliese : I wrote a play once...was pretty passionate about it for a while...but I overcame it.
camidon : We could use my next story date in August, or Herbie's upcoming date, as I don't think he would mine!
davek : The pacing was all wrong for a movie. You need to go between characters quickly no long speaches.
camidon : Ah, nope, got a prior arrangement for next MOnday, so I can make it next week. Doh. ---Me and a friend are writing a murder mystery to put on for a few friends, one of those interactive ones, and it's scheduled for that evening.
davek : CHris, a GenE chat would be good. I'm free most nights.
anneliese : Yep, it could be another night, if you all want.
camidon : Let me look at the coming week...
davek : Tuesday, Wednesday, ...
camidon : How soon would you like to meet? This week? Would Wednesday be too soon?
anneliese : It's your call.
davek : Works for me, but I'm easy. Only Friday wouldn't work.
camidon : Let's do this Wednesday, then, at the same time 8:00MDT, 10:00EDT?
anneliese : I think I'm free most nights, at least for the next 2 weeks.
camidon : Anneliese, you're EDT, so would earlier be better?
davek : OK. Send out a note.
anneliese : Earlier is certainly better, but you have schedules also.
camidon : Also, maybe sometime we could try to send up and early day chat with a few people, and try to arrange it so Herbie could make it. I bet he would love that.
anneliese : I can do the 10 EDT.
anneliese : That's a great idea, CM.
camidon : Okay, let's just leave it at the usual time then.
anneliese : Do you want me to send the notice, or do you want to?
camidon : If you have a second, that would be great. It would just be one more thing for me to forget this week.
anneliese : If you find that that I've forgotten to do it, let me know, or send one out yourself...I'm online all day (9am-6pm EDT)
camidon : I'll try to get caught up on GenE.
davek : Getting late. Chris, what do you think of a story idea log on the GenE page? The idea is to help flesh out the univrse and to keep people from stepping on others stories.
camidon : Will do, Anneliese.
camidon : Think that's a great idea, Dave. Let's get the ideas out in the open, and just be sure to note who came up with them.
davek : I could cobble one together and see what it looks like.
camidon : That would be great, Dave.
anneliese : I've added comments and some other goodies to the wiki, but I don't think I have revision tracking and some other features working yet.
anneliese : I might try to tackle that tomorrow.
camidon : Gosh, Anneliese, I've got you beat. Tomorrow, I'm in the cave 8AM-Midnight, maybe later.
camidon : Gosh I'm weird!
anneliese : Gawd, that sounds like a long hard day!
camidon : It's been a fun chat tonight. Glad to have things settled down a little so I could sit in!
davek : Glad you could make it.
anneliese : Glad to have you both here. Definately fun tonight.
camidon : It's all fun, though, since it's just an exploration trip. Hard work, but the potential rewards... new cave rooms, make it worthwhile.
davek : Time to go though. See you all Wednesday.
davek : Get those new members.
camidon : So I'll be in touch with you all this Wed at 8:00MDT, 10:00MDT. for a GenE shindig.
anneliese : See you then. Niters for now.
davek : Bye.
camidon : gnight, you two.
System: davek left us (snif).